They were still bad enough for 11. They won 36 games, that is trash. They tanked for Curry or were bad whatever, it makes no difference. The Warriors don’t happen without being bad which got them Curry, period l.
Nope. YOU and some others may have wanted him but I was here around that time too. Hindsight 20/20. And yet you use it to prop up an argument...
No, but you get talent first. Then worry about Culture. Tanking didn’t stop people from winning nor did losing a lot of games.
It would seem like it but the Knicks wish that was so. Lakers get AD through the offseason or they get another superstar, someone was going to LA to play with Lebron. It sure didn't have to be AD nor did it need to be for them to be a contending team. And Giannis was a 15th pick...how did it work for them? You're saying they tanked for the 15th pick to draft Giannis? Tanking actually didn't work for them, it got them a bust that didn't even matter in the grand scheme of things.
Knicks are poorly run. Brooklyn is not. But it was AD and they had Ball and Ingram to make it so, you can’t rewrite what happend man. Sometimes it doesn’t work out, we have many more examples of it working out if you trust peanut head so much, let him do it.
??? You're using it to prop up your argument lol. You're the one saying he's a result of the system, not me. Even so, your argument is ANTI-Tanking because it says taht Kawhi developing on a championship caliber team helped his game grow so I'm not sure why you'd want to use that argument if you're pro-tanking? Also, the point isn't about whether the majority of the board was for it or not (I'm 90% sure they were, if you want to dig up the thread, whatever) the point is he was picked 15th and was the best player in his draft.
It was your original argument, not mine. I think it would be naïve to think the Spurs didn't play a role, players don't develop in vacuums. And sometimes that happens and sometimes it doesn't....Usually doesn't. My argument is there are multiple ways to talent acquisition and draft picks are one of them. There is no magic bullet, your way, tanking, a soft tank, etc, however, some ways make more sense than others given circumstances and usually it's multiple ways.
that's the point, being poorly run, no matter what city your team represents, scares away players. Dwight chose Houston over LA because he thought it was a well run team. Also, Pels weren't even interested in Ball and Ingram until draft night, that was always the deal. The sweetener was the #4 pick that the Lakers had just received which was a result of the flattened odds. You guys have results of it working when it mattered and even then you're ignoring the graveyard of franchises that's been tanking now for decades with this same mentality...but you guys are literally saying let's ignore culture and spirit for a 2% chance at a top pick...or even for a 0.5% chance at maybe getting the #1 pick. Before the odds jumped, Lakers were supposed to be drafting 10. I ran a draft simulator today and the 2nd time it put us at #2. The odds just aren't what they used to be. Tankers are like gamblers. It's always 'One more go' until you realize you've bet the house and your life savings away.
That wasn't my original argument though? I just said we should have drafted Kawhi, nothing about how good he would have been if we did. With that said...your argument still is pretty anti-tank if you're suggesting as it seems to be that Kawhi needed a winning environment to grow. That means even a tanking team wastes his talent. My argument is there isn't much sense to it anymore. People are really talking about losing a few more games to bump up their shot at winning the lottery by 1% or so. You can be the worst team in the league and still miss out..and missing out isn't just an 'Oh well' moment. You likely have players giving up on their coach or players already looking elsewhere and looking to get out of there. I don't know if that is worth it. I think winning also raises the value of players so that when Zion or Morant or whoever asks for a trade...well here you go, you now have the assets and an attractive team to join. At the time, before, it made sense because you'd increase your odds by large spikes...but now it's minimal, at least minimal enough that teams in the range we are in will have to legit decide to play for the playoffs or play for a 1% chance at a top 5 pick. To tank now you have to go into the season doing it, like Detroit, you're not tanking with the team we have now. I'm saying having a winning culture helps a franchise more long-term than a shot at a top pick just to maybe pick a guy good enough to carry the franchise.
This team isn't bad enough to get a top 4 seed unless Silver rigs the lottery like he did for the Fakers. With all of our guys healthy, I fully expect to make the playoffs. Without Wall and Dipo, we'll be in no mans land but not bad enough to get a top 4 pick.
Lol dude Brooklyn is well run organization IN New York. Kawhi chose LA over a great raptors organization and Spurs one. Location matters. New York mattered. You can’t deny that. dude they maxed Ingram. Ingram and Ball was absolute something they needed from LA. They do not get LA without those two. You cant rewrite what happened. They do not get AD without those two. That is a fact. The tanking didn’t work for those teams BeCAUSE THEY ARE INCOMPETENT. Lol bro culture and spirit mean Nothing if you don’t have the players. Believe me if there was a better way I would say it. But you need to tank we aren’t getting our pick so we should increase the odds. This culture spirit intangible fest is you guys spinning the wheels and keeping us mediocre. You tank. Get your superstar. You stay bottom 5 it’s ridiculous not to.
Kawhi was a relatively rare example of a player being drafted #14 by an historically well run organization... My argument is to be bad at advantageous times; like when your franchise player is traded, you're burdened with Wall's contract, you're burdened with a WB trade, and your owner's business is hit hard by Covid. Don't confuse that with being indefinitely bad. The new draft order doesn't change the fact that talent is still concentrated more so at the higher end of the draft. FA has its risks too (many overpaid contracts and many burdensome contracts). Asset accumulation through mediocrity has it risks too (Harden lightning strikes twice?). I'm saying having a smart, well run organization helps a franchise more long-term than a shot at a top pick just to maybe pick a guy good enough to carry the franchise. A shot at good picks is a means to get talent. I'm in the 3 year bottom out camp then pivot towards mediocrity then hopefully playoff runs.
Depends, this year it is a Play In tourney. Only the 1-6th seed are guaranteed a secure spot IIRC. If you land in 9th or 10th you have to win 2 games against the 7th and 8th seed. It's not easy. And nobody is going to be 'fully healthy', not the Rockets and not the opponent.
Barnes was a decent pick, I think he could have been an even better player. His shooting wasn't elite, wasn't getting enough rebounds, wasn't too skilled. It sucks but he is a borderline good scorer. Barnes still won 1 ship. All American, US national team player, Olympic gold medalist. He was listed as 6'9 but didn't play above the rim much. Part of the problem. Bogut was a bummer though, he never did develop an offensive game. I didn't need my family to be in the Bay area to have watched their picks though, I am kidding.
There are def times to tank for example when Tmac was traded and Yao retired that was the time to tank cuz the team was old, they had 0 assets and they were capped out. This isnt one of those times cuz we dont have full control of our pick. Ita dumb AF to bottom out, suffer a season of losing and then give your pick to another team. Rox arent bad enough to be top 4 worst team, you'd have to gut the squad and trade away good young pieces like Wood for that to happen. Again you can make that argument if the Rox have full control of their pick but thats not the case right? But this debate is moot cuz Fertits is allergic to losing money. We will go for the playoffs this year regardless what CF thinks.
