I mean I don’t know what to say. I know you know that the numbers aren’t meant to without fail numerically rank every nba player from best to worst. I know you know that these numbers successfully identify with a high degree of accuracy the best overall players from year to year. Quick reminder before you forget what you just read. I didn’t say, nor did the creator of the stat, that they are 100% accurate. That they don’t/won’t have outliers, that it’s possible that the guy who finished 1st by this metric actually was probably the 6th or 7th best player that year. That you can find outliers or minor discrepancies, such as your Lillard example where he ever so slightly led the league that year, as proof positive that these numbers are useless just sounds like a guy who doesn’t like to admit when he’s called out for being wrong and has nothing left to fortify his argument but to try to weakly attack the information used against him.
Didn't we already have this conversation before? Brother I use numbers for a living. Let me equate what you are saying to real life. I'm in Real Estate, I've done probably over 50,000 evaluations over the years (that number is not a stretch either, on average I perform about 65 real estate evaluations a day). I have to fee appraise, give a fair market value, or fair equity value based on numbers that I can actually proof. Any "adjustments" to the value that I am making I have to be able to show the bank why I made said adjustment. Now I understand that Real Estate is totally different from sports but most evaluations are going to be based off formulas that one can show. The problem I have with most people that try to use analytics is they use it to try to justify whatever their position is. You can make the numbers say whatever you want them to say, that doesn't make them correct. Most of the numbers you honestly don't know where the hell they got them or how the hell they came up with them. I don't give a damn how Morey came up with his advanced metrics, are you going to really sit up here and tell me that James Harden is better than Michael Jordan? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Now take Simmons for example, the advanced metrics say that he is a top player (which I think to some degree he is). But you'll have a poster totally disregard ppg or what's actually happening out there on the floor. If you are using advanced metrics in conjunction with other stats, film, or etc then that's fine. But advanced analytics don't account for a lot of things. Use your metrics, but don't beat people over the head with them and make them feel inferior when they make a point you don't agree with. That's something I've seen you do personally and a few other guys on here. I'm not attacking you personally, I'm just attacking the information and how you are using it.
Miss this dude. Loved him. He was amazing with Harden. Plus I like having bigs who can play both sides of the ball.
So again it’s the same. When you don’t like the numbers you run in fear. Attack arguments I haven’t made or have even brought up in any of our conversations( “MJ v Harden” ). Claim things that make no sense. “You can make the numbers say whatever you want to say” No. that is a dumb, wrong claim. Bring up your job? Just because you refuse to grasp the idea of correlation and that these numbers consistently have a high degree of accuracy in identifying what everyone’s eyeballs saw all season so that you don’t have to understand the formula to look at the results they give you year after year after year and see that these things are pretty damn accurate. Again NOT 100% flawless. Just because you have it in your mind that a player can’t have big positive impact while being a low scoring player doesn’t make the stats that say he can wrong and you right. Check out Draymond Greens impact metrics and then his scoring numbers during Golden States run. MONSTER wins added numbers, which passes the damn eye test mind you, and at his peak scored 14 points a game. And then you will say “of course he had great numbers, he played on a badass team, that was tailor made for his skill set” And I will say there is absolutely zero difference when discussing a guy like Simmons and his value and capability to be a positive impact player. Give him a team tailor made for his talents and he is capable of giving you big impact even with low scoring. Something that is actually pretty rare in this league and is something a team could really value. You could easily make a really good argument that building such a team is a difficult task. That in the end trying to build that perfect team for him isn’t likely to ever happen. And that going that route isn’t worth it based on that idea, rather than just attack those mean old scary numbers and the idea that they say he is an impact player. You have hinged your argument on how terrible the stat WAR is off of one year where Lillard slightly was the league leader(based off whose numbers exactly I don’t know) and also highly rated Lou Williams. That year Harden was the MVP of the team with the best record and was also 1st team all NBA. There aren’t a single set of ol’ reliable eyeballs that watched that season and thought this guy wasn’t top 5 for the year. Let’s see how all these scary numbers I use to manipulate minds did on Harden. ESPN RPM : 5th Wins added : 4th Basketball reference MVP predictor : 1st Win Shares : 1st Win shares/48 : 1st Box +/- : 1st Value Over replacement : 2nd 538 Raptor Rating : 1st WAR : 1st NBAmath Total Points Added metric : 2nd These numbers I would say did a pretty damn good job. Just because they all didn’t nail Harden as #1 doesn’t make them useless. Look at the entire array of numbers along with the always accurate eyeballs and it’s easy to make an argument he was the best player. On the other hand as you have claimed, if I wanted to make the numbers say “whatever I want” I would have zero credible chance of making the numbers say Harden did not deserve to make ANY all nba teams. Impossible.
It's very hard a having a logical conversation with a lot of you young guys because I hate to say it but you really don't know $hit but think you do. This is a pointless conversation. I brought my job up to simply show that in life, you can't just say whatever the hell you want to say and think people are just supposed to believe it. That's not how things work. I don't put all my eggs in one basket. If you do then so be it. I'm never going to believe that Lou Williams, Ben Simmons, Draymond Green are franchise players because the numbers say so. That's totally stupid. The long rant is really not needed at all. It's nothing you can say to me that will ever make me base everything off of numbers alone and that's it. And no team is going to do that either. I really don't get why we are having this conversation again...
Yep, still can't believe we gave away CP3, Clint and like 6 picks/swaps for Westbrook and Covington...just horrible. At least we got a couple of picks back and Wood with the last trades, but still...
You engage in the activity I bolded with nothing to back up your claims other than because it’s what you say on a regular basis. I stated clearly multiple times in my posts that I never use only 1 piece of info in my evaluation. I literally just gave you a list of different numbers. And again attacking arguments no one ever made. No one on planet earth has ever made the claim that Lou Williams, Ben Simmons and Draymond Green are #1 franchise player level guys. Especially Lou Williams. Anyone with a brain who watches games and uses all the tools available to them to form opinions would know that Lou Williams has never been a top 10-20 overall player. Even if 1 year a single impact metric out of countless other said that he was. You are attacking a number for saying something when from the very beginning the disclaimer is that this stat isn’t trying to tell you what you are attacking it for saying. None of these stats have ever claimed that at the end of the year if you finish in the top 30 then you deserve your own team and a max deal. The numbers show a level of cumulative or positive impact on a teams winning for that season. The idea that a player who isn’t a go to #1 option scorer can’t be the most or 2nd most impactful player to WINNING games is an outdated relic of the old days. We know better now and the numbers help those who can’t see beyond scoring realize what they can sometimes miss.
"Math boy" still doesn't understand that this conversation is meaningless and I don't care. For someone who thinks they are so smart you're not very bright. I don't want to read anymore of your long ass rants, I don't care if your numbers state that Ben Simmons is a great player based off of impact metrics (LMAO), I don't care about pointless advanced analytics like WAR that you yourself don't even know how to calculate. You're not going to get me to see it your way or vice versa. Move around bro...
I'm not ignorant by any means. I just don't want to keep going back and forth, it's pointless. I lean in all the way middle and you're all the way extreme analytics. That's where the disconnect comes into play. No point in having this debate anymore, we've said everything already. Stop trying to beat people into submission with your takes like you know so much. Learn when to let it go. If you are as smart as you THINK you are then go apply for a NBA front office job somewhere. Since you like to bold things let me bold this for you. EVERYBODY HAS A STAT. Stats are just like opinions everyone has one and they don't mean $hit. But good day to you sir!
So is Maxey and 20 ppg Shake Milton, Milk Shake? Harden would be better but that's a good consolation prize to have.
Lol Shake Milton is really good too. Both of them are solid. I still think Morey took a big gamble by not giving up Maxey in his initial offer but that's just my thoughts. Maybe 2-3 years down the line Maxey will be a fringe star or all-star. Who knows...
Maybe Tilman was fuking with them. I have seen that strategy, pretend they want someone, then make Morey brood and sweat over it. Once Morey was willing, Ferntits would say, too late, we already agreed to the other offer. Bye Darrrrrrell. And get back at him because the media and fans would be angry at Morey.
Hahahaha honestly that's what I think too. I think Tilman told Stone to tell Morey we'll accept the trade. Morey then tells Simmons and Thybulle agents that they are mostly likely going to be traded. Rockets accept the Nets trade. Morey now possibly has disgruntled players on his team. Tilman Fertita is somewhere on his yacht laughing his ass off. LMAO...
It's hard to say right now. Maxey is not as good of a shooter as Jones. But Jones can't penetrate as well as Maxey. Maxey is more of a combo guard. Jones seems like more of a scorer.
He has Plantar Fascitis and we basically got Wood and 1 pick for him. I'd take Wood over Capela anyday Wood can shoot the 3 and generate his own offense. Plus he doesnt have a history of getting sick or injured right when playoffs happen.
How crazy is it Atlanta spent all that money and they still suck? I said it before Trae Young is just extremely overrated, whatever he does on the offensive end he more than gives up on the defensive end. Their GM is also extremely overrated, been picking lemons since day 1, passed on Doncic for Young, traded up for De Andre Hunter and now dudes he signed have been ineffective or injured. That includes Okungwu who didnt play until their previous game. Just signed Bogdanovic, out till Mar. Kris Dunn? Out till feb. Even Gallo has knee problems and is a game time decision. Alongside Miami Atlanta is prob the most disappointing team in the league rn.
