we're the ones that should be sorry that we jacked your thread. the short answer to your question is that i for one felt it was a great movie.
I think the debate on Chinese history and whether empire over chaos should be moved to the D & D forum. As for 'Hero' IMO its one of the best Chinese movies, if not the best Chinese movie (including Hong Kong and Taiwan) I've seen. I think its much better than "Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon" in terms of story, cinematography and even martial arts. Its much grander and more thought provoking, I think as this debate shows and I'm glad to hear that it is finally getting wide release in the US. I've only seen it on DVD's from Asia but I liked it so much I bought the DVD in Cupertino and will go see it on the big screen too. Unfortunately some of the key plots points have been given away already here but its so rich visually that I would definately recommend seeing it. As some people have pointed out if you're looking for a lot of action you might be dissapointed. There's some pretty good fight scenes but they are spread out. Also as someone pointed out the pacing is slow and deliberate. The director Zhang Yi Mou is about at the opposite end of the spectrum from Tsui Hark and John Woo. What you do get is nearly unbelievable cinematography. There are shots on the scale of "Braveheart" of "Gladiator" like the Qin army attacking a small city, then are incredibly tight beautiful shots of rain drops being spun off of a horse hair tassle or my personal favorite of a sword splitting a calligraphy brush perfectly in two with the hairs of the brush exploding out past the sword point. The story is about the Qin Emperor but is structured like "Rashamon" with multiple retellings of the same story. Visually also Zhang Yi Mou has a lot in common with Kirosawa, particularly late Kirosawa, in his use of colors and textures. Also colors are used to help define the plot with a different color emphasizing each retelling. If you like Chinese movies for a fight every other minute, quick edits and 10K bullets this probably isn't the movie for you but if you like Kirosawa movies or epic movies like "Lawrence of Arabia" you should definately see this one.
Michecon, first off, I appreciate the reasoned reply. Secondly, I understand this argument above, just as I understand the "flowering of culture" and "unifier of China" arguments, etc etc. I simply believe they're utterly wrongheaded, and to use "Chinese values" to justify submitting to authoritarianism is a misrepresentation of real Chinese values. Chinese values throughout China's long history have always been to oppose the invading forces; they have certainly NOT been to invite those invaders in so that there can be "order." In the late Ming era, the corrupt dynasty was teetering on the brink of collapse, the masses were suffering, peasant revolts were springing up all through the southern provinces, and the Manchu tribe was pushing from the north. The Manchus succeeded in their invasion, of course, and from an objective standpoint, life was infinitely better under the dynasty that the Manchus eventually established than it was during the Ming, but should citizens of the Ming have opened the gates of the Great Wall and invited the Manchu hordes to ride on in? Actually, that's precisely what the general Wu Sangui did, and he's been justly vilified for centuries as a traitor. You may say my viewpoint is simplistic, but realize the cost of your more "sophisticated" view of history: in effect, you're willing to argue that, throughout Chinese history (or human history, for that matter), the men who died trying to defend their homeland against a foreign invasion were misguided fools, and that the men who cooperated with their invaders were instead the actual "heroes" if their motivation was wanting to see order established and were somehow visionaries who could predict that these invaders were the ones who could establish it. I'm not sure that's an argument you really want to make, is it? DCKid, I apologize for hijacking the thread as well. By all means, see the movie, as there are plenty of things in it that one can enjoy. But after watching it, ask yourself the question I posed earlier: if you were the assassin, and you have the opportunity to kill this invading ruler, what would you do? You don't have the luxury of the hindsight of two thousand years to weigh the benefits versus the costs of your decision, but you do have your homeland and your countrymen to consider. What would each of us do? Let's revisit this question after the film's U.S. release.
For people looking for some other good Asian movies here are some of my recommendations: "Red Sorghum" This was one of Zhang Yi Mou's earliest movies and IMO one of his best. "The Emperor and the Assasin" Also about the Qin Emperor and starring Gong Li who's a favorite of Zhang Yi Mou, and also pretty hot. "JuDou" Warning there are no martial arts in this one and it is very slowly paced. Great cinematography and great acting. A critics movie. "The Killer" The seminal John Woo / Chow Yun Fat movie. Need I say more. "Project A" "Supercop" IMO are the best Jackie Chan movies. The scene of Jackie Chan being chased on a bicycle in "Project A" is a classic. From Japan: "The Seven Samurai" IMO one of the best movies ever. If you've only seen "The Magnificent Seven" or are a fan of westerns this is a must see. "Yojimbo" Another great samurai movie that's been remade into a Clint Eastwood western and also a few other movies. "Ran" A great samurai movie based off of King Lear "Kagamusha" another great samurai movie. "The Eel" A modern movie about redemption. "Afterlife" A movie about reviewing one's life. "Fireworks" A Beat Takeshi (whos billed as Japan's Clint Eastwood) movie about a cop out for revenge and trying to set things right with his wife before she passes away. Finally for Anime fans I recommend "Spirited Away" I forgot the director but he's considered Japan's Walt Disney. This is a kid's movie. Also "The Ninja Scroll" good old fashioned swords, gore, naked chics and lots of action. Not a kid's movie.
more like WAS a favorite, after marrying him, bandwagoning on his career until she had her own and then ditching him. just had to add that in...
you're trying to make up for those taiwan comments so they'll let you into China aren't you? there are definite similarities between this movies and kurosawa movies... but the resemblance to "Lawrence of Arabia" is less obvious. however... for those who complain about Hero's pacing... they've obviously never seen "Lawrence."
Miyazaki. All of his movies are good. You know how some animated movies even adults can enjoy? Like Aladdin or the Lion King. Well Spirited Away is one of them. I'm not really a big fan of Anime, but here are some good ones: Porco Rosso (I think they may be releasing this in America at some point) Princess Mononoke and one of his earliest "My Neighbor Totoro" <-- hugely famous in Asia.
What, what about "Bathhouse" or what ever it's english translations have won several major independent or european film festival awards. "Being togeter" (once again don't know the english translation" have also won several film awards. I enjoy HK and Korean films, but they're mostly B films. Not much thought are ever put into those movies (Infernal Affairs being an exception). Japan excel in anime, but the movies they make are your typical cheesy flicks (Battle Royale being the exception). From what I seen, most Chinese films trys to be like American Beauty, Waking LIfe (though it was trashed by critics, i think it's one of the best films in recent times), and 21 grams, while other eastern asian films trys to make American Pie, Tombraider, and X - Men.
Man, can I call it or what? Or, did I actually start this mess with my little sidebar? It seems to me that both sides are seeing the issues clearly enough; the only disagreement here is the moral evaluation of the choice. I can see validity in both sides because both sides have benefits and sacrifices. However, whether you agree with the thesis of the movie or not, I don't think you can simply dismiss it as propaganda. Using that word implies that it doesn't have sincere, genuine artistic merit. It does have merit, and being pro-government doesn't delegitimize it. It makes a valid argument and is obviously some great material for creating some thought-provoking dialogue on its subject-matter. I don't know if a piece of art can have greater success than that.
I thought the fight scenes in Crouching Tiger were very good, don't get me wrong. The movie, as a whole, bored me simply because the ratio of plot development to fight scenes was much higher than in the typical Asian martial arts film. IMO, it was just a little too melodramatic for me. I thought the wire work was definitely unique and the cinematography was simply amazing. It was as good as any big budget Hollywood film and was completely deserving of the Oscar. Hero looks good, but, again, my personal preference is to see, as Homer Simpson might put it, "Less chat. More splat." I just don't find the overall story lines of most of these types of films to be all that engaging and I'm not really watching the movie for that anyway. Jet Li is one of my favorite actors of this genre. He is an amazing talent.
Good call indeed, Juan. It wasn't your comment that prompted my initial response, though; it was yipeng claiming that the movie represented "authentic" Chinese values. If he or anyone else cares to support the thesis of the film, that's up to them, regardless of how silly I think that position is, but for him to characterize it as, again, representing "authentic" Chinese values, well, that set me off. He's not the arbiter of Chinese values, no matter how much he might apparently think he is. If he identified with the movie's message, then he's entitled to say it represented HIS values. But for him to claim that the film, which to me promotes a philosophy of servitude and acquiescing to authoritarianism, speaks for the values of all Chinese, then that's deeply offensive. To me, the movie glorifies a book-burning, mass-murdering, invading tyrant as a hero, or, alternatively, holds up two other men as heroes who make the treasonous decision not to kill this invader. I've seen responses saying that the tyrant wasn't actually so terrible, but even if I give that a pass, weren't the assassins traitors? How were they heroes? No one's tried to justify that part yet. You're right, though, "propaganda" is too vehement a word for me to use to describe the film. Clearly, the director Zhang Yimou has not in the past been a lackey for the Chinese government. This film was definitely a radical departure for him, in terms of genre as well as political overtones, and while the film left a bitter taste for me, I certainly think it's worth watching. In fact, I look forward to his next project and seeing where his artistic development goes from here.
Since no one seems to have mentioned this yet, this is a great movie to see even if you don't care much for martial arts films. I've been successfully avoiding them for years and didn't think I'd like this movie but it was a great story.
i think that plenty of people, including myself, have mentioned that. it's only some other people who are so anti China that they'll raise a political issue over a film which does not inherently carry a political message. and then annoint themselves the arbiter of Chinese values and judge Chinese history without being Chinese themselves. I think that's very bigoted. then these same people will go on and on about it despite saying they've spoken their last peice. to these people (this person) i say carry on, i don't need the last word, so say what you will. i'll just say this -- the natural laws that inspired the constitution of the United States which allows for the pluralism and liberty of our nation do not give any one the right to make moral judgements on another person's culture. anyway... if anyone else wants to talk about asian movies, feel free. i will respond no further to unbased judgements of the country of my birth, and i discourage further discussion of it in this forum and this thread, which deserves better.
