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Regarding the Rockets, Heart and Inconsistency

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Jun 17, 2001.

  1. Milos

    Milos Member

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    I could not agree more about the development of our team in these areas next year. I think they will be much more consistent and focused from game to game and it all starts at the top.

    The attitude of every team is determined by that of its best player, and that's why the Rockets are in good hands. Francis is ready to assume the role of team leader next year, as he showed by going to the playoffs and learning what it takes to lead a team rather than bolting for vacation at season's end. He and Cat are thoroughly hacked that a team with our talent did not make the playoffs, and they will not let the lazy and sloppy play that killed us last year be tolerated. THis means you Cato!

    Steve was afraid to step forward and take control of the team as long as Dream was still around, but with Hakeem gone and two years already under his belt, this will be the year Stevie Franchise leads us back to the playoffs. If he does so, his growth into team leader will parallel that of Vince Carter, who in this, his third year, became the unquestioned leader of the Raptors on the court during the playoffs and quit deferring to Oakley and the other veterans.

    I don't think it is unreasonable to attribute at least 5 of our losses last year (including back-to-back blowouts by the Clips) to the team coming out with no fire against a team they had overlooked and falling too far back early to pull out what should have been easy wins. If they eliminate those type of games this year, that alone should assure them of 50 wins, which would guarantee a playoff spot for the Rockets and a chance to prove that they have the Heart and Desire, as well as the Talent, to win in this league.

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  2. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    HeyPartner, that is awesome. I was beginning to wonder if anyone else watched SouthPark.

    I wonder if Kemp has ever "dated" Cartman's mother? She seems to be his type.

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  3. Band Geek Mobster

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    Hey Partner,
    Could you make a "They Killed Kenny" Bobblehead doll with music?

    That would be rad...

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    I wanna riot...
     
  4. ROCKETBOOSTER

    ROCKETBOOSTER Member

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    When we discuss Heart of the Rockets, who are we really talking about? Mobley, Francis,
    Norris, Rudy? If so, then it'd be safe to say that every blood cell in their bodies teems with Rocket Red, before every game, every night. But others, such as Cato, Thomas, Williams, and even Taylor and Bullard at times showed noticable disinterest on ocassions. You know, maybe these guys didn't show disintrest in the form of not giving a hoot, but that undeniable demand for excellence in victory that seems to so often invigorate Mobley and Francis before and throughout the games was lacking in these others.

    It's difficult to compare other teamates attitudes, outward expressions of drive, ambition, with two of the most emotional, and it seems to me, dedicated players not only your team but in the league. But for the Rockets to take their overall game to the next level, to rise above mediocrity, they and each and every teammate must beocome inuadated with this consistent drive and determination for game to game excellence. That will and drive that vitalizes and guides Francis and Mobley through the sore ankles, bum knees, and bruised ribs, must also infect the nerves of their teamates.

    I agree with Milo that next year will be different in the sense that, not only Francis but Mobley as well, will demand more from themselves and expect teamates, personal friends or not, to spill their fair share of guts, every game.

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    [This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited June 20, 2001).]
     
  5. ZRB

    ZRB Member

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    The formula of playing hard in every game won't work in the west?

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    [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited June 20, 2001).]
     
  6. SuperS32

    SuperS32 Member

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    I think the reason why the Rockets played so well against the east is because they played Eastern Conference bball last year, meaning they were quick, used isolation and penatrated alot, a usually didn't have an inside scorer. The west, on the other hand, is more of an inside-outside game. Next year, when zone comes out, the east will be SCREWED by any team with any kind of inside shot blocker. Thats why Jordan would be an idiot if he traded down for Rodney White instead of Kwame Brown at #1. The only Eastern COnference team with a serviceable inside presence are the Hawks (Ratliff) and the 76ers (Dkiembe).

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  7. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    I know you are not refering to the 76ers playing hard in every game. Would you like me to pick out games that they forgot to show up and gave less than insperational an effort. How about game four of the finals. Their play was less than insperational. How about against us in their own building. Once again they really showed no heart then.

    Maybe you would like an idea of players that decided to throw in the towl during the finals. Does the name Tyrone Hill mean anything? His play was so uninspiring that you would not even remember him if his name was not in the box score.

    Stop pretending that the 76ers are this team that gives 100% every single time they step on the court. They are not.

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  8. Franchisedream

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    I have to disagree about Thomas showing a lack of interest. I think Thomas is still young and made some mistakes, but I think his heart is in the right place. He may not be a starter, but he has worked hard on his game, and I think for him it's a matter of learning to finish on his moves, and execute well.



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  9. ZRB

    ZRB Member

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    That one Houston game is your only example? One game out of 105? I'm not including Game four, because they did make a huge run in the fourth quarter before losing.

    If the Rockets had played hard in all but one game, they would have had about 55 wins.

    I'm going to list the games where the Rockets forgot to show up:

    @ L.A. Clippers L 74-77
    @ Boston L 81-96
    Sacramento L 81-88
    Denver L 100-102
    Seattle L 92-107
    @ Denver L 100-105
    Miami L 85-103
    L.A. Clippers L 84-101
    @ L.A. Clippers L 92-97
    @ New Jersey L 98-101
    Dallas L 97-109
    Denver L 99-100

    That's 12 losses, 9 of which would have been wins had the Rockets bothered to play with some intensity. There were also several wins where it took miracle fourth quarter comebacks to make up for their lack of effort through 36 minutes. If the Rockets hadn't been playing weaker teams, they would not have been able to come back.

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  10. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    My thoughts exactly, ZRB.

    With regard to the players who play hard every night, I have to add Kenny Thomas.

    And while Bull doesn't exactly play like he hates to lose, I don't doubt his leaving it all on the floor.

    Steve, Cat, Moochie, Bull and Thomas left it on the floor. Dream didn't for over half the season, and no one else did it.

    As for Taylor, a guy who is 6'9", plays the power forward position, and whose entire game is within 17 feet of the basket should accidently get more rebounds.

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  11. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Sorry but you can not exclude game four of the finals. It was their most important game of the year and they got stomped.

    @LAC 74-77 Rockets went into that game with an injured Taylor that was still trying to learn the offense. Cato was missing due to injuries. The Rockets did not lack hustle in this game. They led for three quarters while shooting .345 from the floor. They only commited 12 turnovers for the game. Taylor stayed in foul trouble most of the game and in the fourth the Clipps managed to sneak a win at their home. The main reason for this loss was that the Rox just could not find their shot.

    @ Boston 81 - 96 This was the second game of a back to back on the road. They just came off their first road win of the season in Indiana and you could tell their was a lack of energy plus the team only shot .318 from the field. This was the game tha Patino said he would quit if his team did not give a better effort. I'll give you this one but their were mitigating circumstances.

    Sacramento 81-87 Sorry but a seven point loss to one of the better teams in the NBA does not qualify. They fell behind by 15 in the first then worked their as off to get back in the game and make a contest out of it.

    @Denver 100-105 What? are you kidding? This was the last game of a road trip in the mile high city. We almost one this one and with out any centers. KT and MoT had to match up against LaFrentz and McDyess and we damn near beat them on their home court. If not for some late heroics by VanExxel we would have won.

    Miami 85-103 I have already mentioned this one. All around effort was lacking.

    LAC 84-101 yep, no effort in this one.

    @NJ 98-101 Second game of a back to back on the road and Taylor missed the game because of injuries. This game was especially frustrating because we were in the hunt for a play-off spot and the were playing their ass's off. Unfortunately they could not get the damn ball to drop. The team shot .416 from the field. It was not for lack of effort. We had more rebounds fewer TO's and more steals. The effort was their.

    Dallas 97-109 This was the game that Dallas clinched the play-offs with. Dirk, Finely and Howard were all hitting everything they through up. Taylor was trying to play on two bad ankles and Francis could hit watter if he fell out of a boat that game. This was another game that they protected the ball and out rebounded their opponent but when less than .400 and your opponent shoots over .500 its kind of hard to stay close.

    Denver 99-100 Please at least pick a game that they were not competitive again. Rockets had no one in this game to match up with Lafrentz and McDyess. Both Taylor and Dream missed this game and Anderson only played 10 minutes. The Rockets played their ass off in this one but just did not have enough fire power with only Francis and Mobely to count on.

    I will give you four of those games as lack of effort. Boston, Miami, LAC and Dallas. Thats 4 out of 82 in a season filled with injuries on very little continuity with our front court players.

    To assume that just because your team has an off night shooting that they are not hustling or playing with heart is wrong. During the course of an 82 game season that is going to happen. Even with the Lakers. During the course of last season the one thing I never heard Rudy T critisize his team for was a lack of effort.

    Inconsistancy in your exacution does not mean there is inconsistancy in effort.

    I spent my time this year watching the Rockets and not the 76ers so I don't know just how many games they won after having a bad first half but I am quite sure that they had some.

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    [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited June 20, 2001).]
     
  12. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    By just about everyone's estimation, if the Rockets had brought it every game, they would have won at least five more games and made the playoffs at the sixth or seventh spot.

    Close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades, and "missed it by that much" is only OK for agent 86.

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  13. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    A fact of the NBA is that in an 82 game season there are going to be some games where you are sloppy or just don't have your legs under you for verious reasons. Not once during the season do I recall anyone bringing up a lack of team effort as the reason the Rockets did not make the play offs. Some people questioned the efforts of Cato. But the Rockets came to play almost every night. They showed some of the inconsistany's in exacution that is going to be found with a team in its first full year of rebuilding.

    I will continue to say if the Rockets had been as healthy as the 76ers were this season they would have made the play offs. How many games did Dream, Cato and Collier miss due to injuries? How many games did Mo miss due to injuries? He played the last month and a half on two bad ankles. How many other teams had to go through at least a third of their season never knowing who was going to play center because all their centers and their starting power forward was injured?

    We went from a 34 win season to a 45 win season in just our 1st full year of rebuilding while having the most disruptive injuries of any team in the league. We are the first team in the modern era to win 45 games and not make the play offs.

    a consitant effort was not this teams. problem.

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  14. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    You're entitled to your opinion, Crash.

    How do you explain the way we folded in key games against Minnesota and Phoenix late in the season?

    We had our chance and we blew it.

    Our record was as good as it was because we beat up on the LEastern conference. We were not close to competitive in the West.

    Why did we lose key games to the Suns and TWolves?

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  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Yet Philly Beat up on the LEastern conference
    and are seen to be the SUPER HEART of the league?

    Being that we were 25-5 against the EAST
    if we had say . . 10 more games against them
    that 5 games you talk about would have come . .

    Rocket River

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  16. PinetreeFM60

    PinetreeFM60 Member

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    But we are not in the East.

    We are in the West.

    And you didn't answer my question about the key losses late in the season. Instead, you attempt to divert the issue to Philly.

    I could care less about Philly. I'm talking about the Rockets' need to play hard every night, and to have more players who will do that.

    Your comments are a typical attempt to avoid the issue by redirecting.

    Answer my question if you can.



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  17. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    First off we did not have any late season losses to Minnesota. We beat them 114-87 in the last game of the season and 89-83 on Feb 21st. Our last loss to Minn was Jan 1 96-106.

    Our last two losses to Pheonix were both nail biters. We played our asses off in both games but Pheonix beat us on a last second shot by Googs at their place. In the second game Pheonix came back behind an unbaleavable effort by Kidd. He scored something like 43pts and shot like 60% from the floor. Keep in mind that Kidd is something like a lifetime .400 f/g%. In both games the Rockets led late into the 4th. Pheonix is a legitimate play-off team and just got the better of the Rockets. No lack of effort.

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  18. ZRB

    ZRB Member

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    Denver 99-100 Please at least pick a game that they were not competitive again. Rockets had no one in this game to match up with Lafrentz and McDyess. Both Taylor and Dream missed this game and Anderson only played 10 minutes. The Rockets played their ass off in this one but just did not have enough fire power with only Francis and Mobely to count on.

    That would make a lot of sense if McDyess had played, but both he and Van Exel were absent from this one. It should have been over by halftime.


    You mentioned several games where the Rockets' shots just weren't dropping. Here's a thought: DRIVE TO THE HOOP!!!

    With two of the best ball handlers in the league, you'd think that the Rockets could have tried to get to the basket now and then instead of jacking up jumpers all night long. The Clippers, Nets, and Celtics aren't the best defensive teams you know.

    Oh, and on the Nets. No Marbury, no Martin, NO EXCUSES! They lost to a CBA team.

    A seven point loss to the Kings would be acceptable if they had been competitive. The Rockets only made it look good with a three at the buzzer. You just don't fall behind 25-5 at home.

    Maybe the Mavs would have shot under 50 percent if the Rockets had scrambled on defense and actually tried to distract the shooters. Again, they put zero effort into the defense.

    Again, any Denver loss is inexcusable.

    If the Rockets had come out and played hard in all of those games, they would have made the playoffs, gained national attention, guaranteed themselves a few NBC games next year, and become more attractive to free agents. Instead, they're just that other team in Texas.


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    [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited June 21, 2001).]
     
  19. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    You act like Phoenix and the Twolves are loser teams . . .
    @ Minnesota W 84-82 6-0 Snow 22
    Ratliff 14
    Minnesota L 91-96(OT) 16-5 Iverson 26
    Hill 13


    Phoenix W 104-98 40-14 Iverson 26
    Lynch 12

    @ Phoenix L 71-84 48-21 McKie 20
    Mutombo 13


    Philly Went 2 - 2 against them - so by the great philly comparison . . they ain't no punks


    Carlos Rogers DNP Dan Langhi DNP
    Kelvin Cato DNP Maurice Taylor DNP

    for the last Phoenix Game.

    Since we slaughter Minnesota in the last game of the season . . the next to last game against them was February . . .which we won
    [we were 2-2 with Minnestoa]
    [1-3 against Phoenix]

    IMO we played hard. . .but simply came up short.

    This thread was in response to the insta-props
    folx giving philly . . . .but since you wanna say that the Rockets don't try hard and
    are a bunch of slackers. . . I have to say no
    they are not.

    Rocket River

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  20. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    ZRB, Your right the Rockets blow. They laid down in almost half the games they played. What could I have been thinking? The Rockets are so immensly tallented and had such good health and team continuity through out the season that they should have easily been NBA champs. Never mind that they only won 34 games last year and were in the 1st full year of a major rebuilding process.

    Denver was missing Van Exell and McDyess but they still had Pack, LaFrentz, Willis and McCloud. We had no Dream and no Taylor...no front court. I am sure their fans thought that they should have had the game rapped up by half time also.

    If you want to beleive that the Rockets have a heart problem then go ahead but the team I watched play last year had no such problem.

    Lets look at some games by Philly losses and judge them based on your standerds.

    11/22 @Charlotte 73-88 A 15 point loss to an inferior team? And that team was with out its star forward Derick Coleman. Philly lays down

    11/25 @San Antonio 76-96 A loss is one thing but a 20 point loss? Philly has no heart.

    12/15 Dallas 94-112 No excuse for this one. You never loose by 18 on your home court. Philly is just a bunch of spineless jelly fish.

    12/22 New York 71-91 Whats this? Another lopsided 20pt loss on their home court? What gives? Philly sucks

    1/10 Portland 75-93 Huh? Yet another blow out on their home turf? Not even competitive.

    2/7 Houston 87-112 Well here it is you knew I had to mention this one. A 25 point blow out on their home court. Philly doesn't appear to bring it every night after all.

    3/16 Sacramento 79-100 Oh my god! [​IMG] another 20pt loss at home. Thank god our beloved Rockets did not tank this many games by so much at home ehh?

    4/3 @Toronto 85-100 See they have just as much ability to stink it up on the road as they do at home.

    4/12 @Orlando 77-101 Well it sure does not appear as if your beloved 76ers played very well in this one either.

    Hmmm? Kind of makes you want to rethink your logic about Philly being all heart and hustle huh. At last count that was nine complete disasters, er uh blow outs that is.

    I would just as soon not use Philly as a model for the Rockets.

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