Woj: Rockets want to trade Harden "sooner rather than later"

Was Dirk still top 10 in 2011? I’d argue the 2014 Spurs also didn’t have a top 10 player at that point in their careers.

Really looking at history, the best measure of sustained championship success hasn’t been having a top 10 player.....it’s having THE best player. There have been a ton of top 10 players who never won championships but Lebron, Kobe, Michael and Magic / Larry absorb a ton of the championships won the past 40 years. So, the question shouldn’t be whether James is top 10 (which he obviously is) but rather whether he’s in the same category as those guys (which he obviously isn’t)?

Outside having one of those transcendent players, most of the other winners had great teams. Multiple perennial All Stars with depth. I dunno that we have that either and it takes a lot of front office talent and luck to get it.

 

Not that I'm totally against 2 years of angry Harden and a full rebuild, but the points against it are
1) OKC owns 4 future first round picks from the Rockets
2) Harden walking for nothing means his $47M salary will be replaced by $10M worth of players because the Rockets will be operating under the cap instead of over. Tilman would love those savings.

A complete rebuild would be very difficult with losing Harden for nothing... almost irresponsible.

 

Harden always called selfish by "fans" and media but he has shown that he is the antithesis of that by sublimating his game to make his teammates better (Wood, Russ, CP3, Dwight, etc.).

If Rockets just iso to Harden's average last season, Rockets win vs. Blazers perhaps even vs. Nuggets.

But Harden understands that he needs to create that chemistry with Wood AND weaponize his game.

Harden is just wired that way.

 

Exactly!

 

Over Ingram, Tatum and another or two I’m brain phlarting about?

 

I was saying earlier in the thread he could easily be a 25ppg guy right now. His efficiency would dip, but they are insanely high right now which indicates he's not shooting enough. His ts% is at 70% which is really good even for centers. And this guy is taking off balanced 3s with a guy in his face. And don't say sample size because he was nearly just as efficient all last year, even before he got more of an opportunity in the bubble.

 

Notice how everything you described was either past or future tense from the year 2014.

And really, yeah I do discredit past and future glory, wtf? They deserve credit for things that they weren’t actually doing?

You are using time machine logic in actual reality.

I’m gonna get a team of retirement home NBA players together and tell them go win basketball games with their past credit.

 

Yes, I think that Dirk was still a top 10 player in 2010-2011, but he did tail off shortly there after. He was averaging close to 30 a night in the playoffs that year as well.

Yes, the real measure is having a top 3-5 player in the league for the majority of championships..... but there are a lot of title teams with Boston and the Lakers and even the Warriors where we could argue about whether the winning team actually had the best player in the NBA or whether they were in the top 3-5. It is fair to say, that the vast majority of the title winning teams had a player in the discussion for the best in the world.

You say outside of LeBron/Kobe/Jordan/Magic and Larry that all the other title teams had "great teams". Well, ALL of the players you listed had amazing players around them when they won titles, they all had first ballot Hall of Famers and in the case of Magic and Kobe and Bird, they had multiple first ballot Hall of Famers around them.

The reason that Harden hasn't won a title isn't because Harden isn't good enough; it is because the team around him hasn't been good enough. The only elite team Harden has been on was the one with Paul and they were about to beat the Warriors before Paul was out with an injury. Put Harden on those Warriors teams, the Lakers teams that Kobe or Magic was on or the Celtics teams and Harden would have won titles as well.

The reason the Rockets are treating Harden with kids gloves is because they know they have one of the 2-3 best players in the world, and someone that for periods of time is the best player in the world. Those are very very very hard to replace.

 

I wouldn't take mpj over Tatum, but hes not available.

 

As a pure scorer? Yes, I think that he can be a better scorer than Ingram or Tatum. I do not think that Porter will ever be as good a player as Tatum unless he really improves defensively and as a playmaker.

 

Fair enough. I think that’s the rub though. Do we have the capability to put that team around Harden? We haven’t in 8 years and now have no cap space, an injury prone $40M PG and few draft picks. I’m not saying it’s impossible but at some point you roll the dice on a trade, try to get younger and hope you get lucky.

 

Well the picks meant multiple first round picks.

They'll probably turn it around, but they're 1-3, their only win against a Rockets team missing 4 of their top 6 players, and its because their defense is horrendous.

 

Does anyone know where can find the stat for offensive rating on the court? Is it on NBA.com?

 

All the speculation on here is funny. I still believe James Harden will sign his extension with Houston and give us a couple of championships in the near future

How Sweet It Is!

 

Harden doesn't get credit for feeding the hot hand on the court. He is always willing to find the player crushing. He knows his time will come

 

I also noticed he didn't look the same great rebounder he was looking pre injury, i don't know if he lost some athleticism, if it's just the DeAndre/Allen duo that's taking most of those rebounds away (the Warriors in comparison were really small as a team) or if it's just him trying to avoid putting too much stress on his foot, but still, i agree, overall while still a beast, he doesn't look the same Durant as before as today. And it's not like i'd bet on Irving being always healty.

 

He stopped boxing out after 2016-17. He was only at 6.6 rebounds per in 18 and 19x


Durant looks fantastic. First step, and brakes all there from what I’ve seen.

And the finishing, and his defense.

It should give everybody optimism about John Wall. Wall has constantly said he feels 110%.

Cousins had more than just an Achilles so we’ll see.

 

I want to believe! But it’s healthy to prepare ourselves to go either way. We don’t know whether it’s all too far gone, or if things can be reconciled.

I MUCH PREFER we keep Harden, and use those picks to improve the team. I hope that is on the table.

 

I’m with you on this but my gut tells me that he is going to settle in and recognize what is in front of him

 

I hope what we see on the court is what is real. He looks engaged, both in his play and interactions with his teammates.

But looks can be deceiving, and we don’t know what has been said behind closed doors.