He realized that he has no talking points about the draft. Probably scouring the RNC website and O'Reilly archives to try to find something to say.
A draft is a big mistake for several reasons: A. With an all-volunteer force, our military is a professional organization. Having a bunch of people who don't want to be there would be a nightmare and would lead to a host of problems. B. The truly powerful would find a way to get out of it anyhow. Or the really clever little bastards, like Bill Clinton, would do what they needed to do to get out of it. But this issue of a draft is not a relevant point, because recruitment and retention are up! So why even bother? I think that Rangel and that GOP goon who favors the draft are just making political hay in an attempt to force the children of the "rich" to fight as well. It's nothing more than class warfare and a sorry attempt to force people into volunteerism. link
You obviously havent been in the military before or you dont know what good money is. The pay in the military is absolutely terrible. Most people in the military can barely get by. This is true. According to this website about 64% of the military is white. 20% of all officers and 39% of all enlisted are minorities. Once again, obviously you have not been in the military. Of course this is my own experience but most of the people that I knew in the military were idiots. If our Navy is the best in the world, then I would hate to see another country's Navy. I was with people were supposed to be smart also. As far as the draft goes, I think it is a waste of time and people. You are once again sending people to fight for a cause that most people do not believe in. Of course that is my opinion. This is coming from someone that considers himself a Republican (generally). I served in the military and I voted for Bush. This has been a cluster**** of monumental proportions and trying to draft people to continue the "cause" is only going to piss people off even more. Absolutely terrible idea.
Here is some more info on how much money people in the military make. Basically 50% of everyone in the military make between $1000 and $2000 a month. That is crap for what these guys (and gals) do. 75% - 80% make less than $3000 a month. Absolutely ridiculous. I'm not saying that you should become Bill Gates for being in the military but you should at least be able to provide a decent life for your family. I have tried to look up articles that discuss how people in the military rank financially but havent found much.
You know it may not seem that much, but each and every person in the military was able to figure out exactly how much they'd be making and they still CHOSE to do it. I'm not saying they don't sacrifice, and I am happy, proud, and thankful that they do. The thing is that most of them realize and you do not is that the Military is giving them tremendous opportunity that many would not have otherwise. I work for the DOD as an Engineer, and you would not believe how many people that now work here as civilians are former miliary members that were making jack squat, but they would have never had the opportunity to get to this situation without the aid of the military. Most of the military does not make a career out of it, and that low salary is just an entry level salary. The most important thing is that because of the GI Bill they also get money for college in the near future and THAT is where the gold is. Yes they are sacrificing in the short term, but most of these guys know it is an investment. And they must believe it is a good investment or they wouldn't have signed up.
your 100% right here, conscripts would be a danger to themselves and other soilders But I'm not so sure the retention and recruitment picture you've painted is as rosey and you think... http://www.news-leader.com/today/0416-Armysreten-64247.html "The number of soldiers choosing to stay in the Army has fallen sharply just as the demand for soldiers is increasing in Iraq. In the first six months of the military's fiscal year, which began Oct. 1, the retention rate fell 10 percentage points."
No, most people that enlist are 18 years old and fresh out of HS. They dont know any better and think that $500 twice a month is a lot of money. Then they get into the real world and see that it isnt crap. I'm not saying that I dont appreciate what they do because I do a great deal. I want these people to make more money and not have to struggle so much. If anyone deserves it, they do. As do firefighters, police officers, and teachers. These are easily the most underpaid professions. edit: I think if they bumped the pay up and increased the requirements to get into the military, we would have better qualified candidates wanting to join. I think we would see an increase in enlistment and higher moral.
Trader_Jorge has nothing to add except what was posted already in the article. Afterall, that is all he is capable of doing. Regurgitation. If TJ could think for himself, he'd know he wouldn't want a draft because he'd know the country would be outraged if suddendly we had to send our children to fight a war that half of us don't support even now. "Not in our back yard." City waste dumps are for the public good, as long as I don't have to see it. War in Iraq is fine as long as it doesn't affect my daily activities. Once it affects people's daily life, you'll see a new tune. If we force people to go to war that don't want to, the public outcry would be massive!!!!
Interesting comments about the "voluntariness" and myths concerning the current armed forces vs draftees. ***********>>>>>>>> The lies continue. President George W. Bush boasts of the nation's all-volunteer armed forces: "We have seen the great advantages of a military in which all serve by their own decision." The truth is that as of last month, no fewer than 44,500 American soldiers who had fulfilled their contractual obligations, completed their enlistments and made plans to return to civilian life or retirement were frozen -- by an arbitrary "stop-loss" order -- on active duty. A survey by the military's Mental Health Advisory Team found the suicide rate among GI's stationed in Iraq to be 35 percent higher than among Army troops wordwide. We do not have an all-volunteer service today. The reality is that we now have a limited military draft. But the only Americans who are subjected to the current "draft" are those who have already demonstrated their patriotism by volunteering to serve in the military and have then served honorably. There is a class difference, too, in proudly classless America. All the sacrifice of this war is being borne by the minority of our population who overwhelmingly do not go onto college. While nearly 50 percent of the U.S. adult population has some college, barely six percent of our military recruits have any college. One of the "advantages" of the all-volunteer military the president chooses not to mention is that under the draft, which was in effect until 1973, fewer than 10 percent of the draftees failed to complete their obligation. In the vaunted all-volunteer military, more than one out of three of today's soldiers fails to complete his initial enlistment. Among white male recruits, the failure to complete their enlistment rate is 35 percent, and among white female recruits, it is 55 percent. link
So you are saying HS kids that are 18 don't know what to do with their life. They are old enough to know what to do with their life. Many of us make decisions such as what college to go to and what to major in that effect the rest of our lives, as do they. I don't disagree with you that for the job they do, they deserve more pay, as do teachers, firefighters, police, etc. The bottom line is that the market sets the price. A baseball player doesnt make $2 million because thats what he deserves, but that is what the market sets for a star athlete. He provides a service that virtually no one else can do. I would love to give these people more money in their salary because they do deserve it, but as you and I both know that's just not the way it works.
Total anti-military horsepuckey. Glad to know with citizens like you Glynch, we really don't need enemies! It is called "need of the service." When you sign your name, pecker track or blood on that dotted line, you agree to serve at the convenience of the govt, meaning they can either extend you or kick you involuntarily. Fact of life, hoss. But then again, you wouldn't know anything about that, would you? Guess you're too busy dissenting against this country's attempts to protect our vital interests, eh? A lot of people who fail to complete their enlistments get kicked out for various offenses or in the case of women (who don't belong in the service in any form) get pregnant. Does it please you to wallow in a cesspool of negativity aabout our country? It certainly must.
I totally agree in the sense that it is still voluntary. Each of those enlistees know there is the possibility that their contract may be extended as necessary. That is part of the deal when they first ever sign up. The second thing is that of course many of the people in the military don't have college education! The reason many of them go into the military is so that when they get out they CAN go to college thanks to the GI Bill. This is an opportunity and an avenue for them to get to college that they might not have otherwise. Cut the crap about how these people are "Forced" to be in the military and is so bad because we as Americans make only poor minorities join because its just not true.
Oh, lord. I'll control myself. So you are saying HS kids that are 18 don't know what to do with their life. That's right, they don't. They may think they do, but it is a rare 18 year old mature enough to make this a valid statement. And I have vivid memories of being 18, but that was over 30 years ago, so what do I know?? I don't disagree with you that for the job they do, they deserve more pay, as do teachers, firefighters, police, etc. The bottom line is that the market sets the price. The bottom line is that the market sets the price. Wow, that leaves me pretty speechless... and reminds me of some posts Trader_Jorge made a while back about service men and women and veterans. Not good company, RMJ. I would love to give these people more money in their salary because they do deserve it, but as you and I both know that's just not the way it works. Too true... with this Administration, we get gigantic taxcuts for the wealthy during a war. Using that money to provide better salaries and benefits for our people in the military and for veterans would be too much to ask. Right? Hey, I guess I said a little anyway. Sorry about that.
The vast majority of kids that are 18 dont know their ass from a hole in the ground so yes that is exactly what I am saying. Just because they are able to make the decision doesnt mean that it is the right one or that they know what they are getting themselves into. edit: What Deckard said.
And every other administration in US history has done more than talk about increasing salaries for Firefighters, Policemen, Miltary Workers, and Teachers right? Do you disagree with me that the market sets the price for the Military? I'm not saying its right or wrong ... I'm saying that's the way it is. Do you really think that is not the case? Anyway .. I've proved my point that the members of the military are there voluntarily regardless of whether or not you think an 18 year old is capable of making that decision. Who are you to tell them they can't do that?
I have to disagree with your assertion that there is any competitive market price for military wages. There is only a single employer of soldiers in America (the whole "no state militias" thing...) so wages aren't necessarily going to be brought down to any competitive equilibrium level. I'm not sure how they are set, but they aren't responding to any market mechanism. I'd guess that congress gets to set them, but that's just a conjecture. Of course, as the military gets more and more privatized, soldiers wages will have to rise, otherwise the big shots will shrug off their military salaries and work for one of these "private security firms" that pay much higher wages. Although it's becoming increasingly prevalent, unless the country makes massive changes (probably requiring constitutional change) and COMPLETELY privatizes the military, market forces won't completely determine military wages.
Yes, I don't think the market sets the "price" for what we pay our people. Congress and whoever is President do. I don't think you can set a price on what these men and women do for our country, but I know that what they get is not enough, and the "market" has nothing to do with it. I never said an 18 year old was incapable of making a decision to join the military. I sure as hell never said that they couldn't do it. I hope more do. What I said was that they typically don't know what to do with their life, and I stand by that statement. Big difference.
Within that specific market .. You are right .. There is no competition. There is competition though based on the fact that these people can choose to work for military or do something else. The gov't figures out how many people it needs and sets the pay and benefits (remember benefits are very important especially things such as housing and college aid) ... If they get enough people to do the job at that pay then the market has set the price. If they paid less they wouldnt get enough people to do it. You are right though ... The pay might not be enough right now so they would need to raise it to possibly attract more enlistees. That is more appropriate than a draft which I am completely against. BUT I do think that the market is setting their salary.
