Herro! He’s gonna be a star man. If we can get Nunn and some 1st rounders in 25 and beyond I would love the trade.
Is that worth to get a players with Eric Gordon or Caplea level with some drafts picks to get our super star Harden? In the contrary, Why dont we use Gordon to get Leborn, Gianns or Curry?
Simmons is 24 and on a supermax. Could demand out if we suck in 2-3 years. Much more comfortable with Herro's rookie deal. Better fit with John Wall too.
Posters clamoring to trade harden for a player that averages 13.5 pts and some picks. Jeezus christ. Like if u want to want to watch rape, just go to pornhub. We do this stupid ass trade we r literally gonna b next to the thunders in shttest trades in NBA history.
In business you take a look at worst case scenario, but you dont act like the worst case scenario is what will happen all the time. Otherwise you wouldnt even make a business, cuz the worst case scenario is the business flops. I never said Herro is bad as a 19 yr old, but at the same time if he develops into a star in 4 years then guess what he gonna be at Simmons' current level. How good do you think Herro will be? Will he be on Lebron, Giannis, Harden level eventually? You think he has a shot at becoming an MVP contender? Cuz Simmons is already at the superstar level, if he learns to shoot he goes to that level already. As a rookie Simmons averaged 15 8 8 so unlike Herro he already put up superstar nos as a rookie. You are right, you arent gonna get equal value for Harden. But Simmons at least is 75 cents on the dollar for Harden. Herro and filler is like 20 cents on the dollar lmao. With the way everybody is overrating Herro he is gonna get max when he resigns in 3 yrs. Ben Simmons vs Herro at the same salary who do you think is better? Lol.
Herro wont be on a rookie deal in 2-3 years. He can also sign with other teams if we suck, dude already reached the Finals as a rookie you think he will be happy on a lotto team?
laugh all u want, but discounting potential and completely disregarding cap flexibility is how sports business managers get fired. yea i agree that you don't always function as if the worst case scenario is gonna happen all the time. you've gotta take risks and in an ultra-competitive landscape like the nba, taking the conventional route often leads to mediocrity. i think you and i both can agree that banking on herro to be a star is a lot more risk-taking than simmons, who we all know is the better, safer, commodity (all-star level) in terms of current value. no one can say exactly what herro's future value is right now - if they know it, then please ask them for some powerball numbers. i think simmons' shooting has been discussed enough that i'm not gonna go deep into that and how **** his shot mechanics are. other than the casuals, most of this board, even the ones who prefer the simmons trade, know the guy has no chance in hell in developing a halfway decent jumper. again, herro would be a restricted free agent in 3 years (the same year john wall comes off the books). whether or not herro becomes a true star, the rockets will be able to push the reset button and fit in 2 max contracts on top of herro's extension. ben simmons is already on his max and is an unrestricted free agent in 4 years.. and given how klutch operates, you can bet that if the rockets don't get anywhere near a ring with simmons in 2-3 years, he's gonna find the next flight to LA before his contract is even up. the rockets are gonna be on a real tight timeline with no cap flexibility if you take on simmons. it's not some hypothetical... that's the reality of how the nba/klutch operates today. if you believe the rockets without harden can compete for a championship in these next 2-3 years, then yea, go for the simmons trade.
Everything you said is true. If it were Herro versus Simmons, in a vacuum, all factors equal, Simmons is the choice. But, of course, we're not in a vacuum. Contract and cap flexibility matters. RFA in 3 years matters. 20 years old matters. Fit with committed salary matters. The guy also averaged 16ppg and 34mpg in the playoffs for a Finals team. It's not that we have to hope he improves. He is actively improving. He's got big balls, like how many game winners did he hit this year? He's doing this as a 20 year old rookie. There's no guarantee he becomes a star... But a lot of stars didn't have as good of a rookie year as Herro. Also, you probably get Nunn, Robinson and more in this deal. Nunn was runner up for ROTY. Robinson is a proven Finals team contributor, one of the best shooters in the league. He's young and on an upward trajectory as well.
I'm in with Herro. Has similarities with Booker and mentally is an OG. In rookie contract. Bring me Precious too, some picks, and I'm absolutely in.
The thread is just Herro vs Simmons. We don't know what other players come in deals. How is contract and cap flexibility supposed to matter when you don't know who comes back in salary? The only thing we know is Herro and Simmons. It's an in a vacuum discussion as we don't know what other players are involved. As far as "fit" is concerned both Simmons and Herro would fit because the only other foundational piece we have is Wood, a spacing 4/5. He fits with either Simmons as a roll man or Herro. In fact Simmons would fit in more cuz now you have an inside/outside combination. With Herro you don't got nobody to create for others you just have 2 spacers. There is no guarantee Herro becomes a star but Simmons is already a star. There is no guarantee Simmons becomes a superstar, but he is already a star. LOL wtf how hard is this actually?
2nd Trade PHI: PJ Tucker HOU: Matisse Thybulle, Mike Scott (waive) + FRP[/QUOTE] Why on earth would the 76ers make this awful trade!?! The 76ers love Thybulle! A more realistic trade would be Mike Scott and a couple 2nds for Tucker.
Wall looks like a foundational piece, don't retire him that soon. Ferro fits very well next to him. We also know their contracts. You would be 20-30M under the cap the next summer with picks and a team that competes, that's an attractive destiny.
Who you think has more potential? 20 yr old shooter or 6'10 uber athletic 24 yr old Simmons? Sure nobody knows how good Herro is gonna be but wanna bet 10k USD Herro never becomes an MVP contender within the next 5 years? I am all up for it if you are. I agree you gotta take risks, but the risk is that Herro can become a star while Simmons is already a star. You are taking the wrong kind of risk if somebody says you can have a super model as a wife or somebody who can be as beautiful as a supermodel who do you take? You wanna risk on Herro becoming a star but don't wanna risk on Simmons developing a jumper. If Simmons doesn't develop a jumper he is still an all star if Herro doesn't develop into a star you just got ripped off. How can the Rockets fit in 2 max contracts if Herro becomes a true star? How can Lakers afford Simmons if they got Lebron and AD in LA? It's not just Simmons who wants to come in to LA, that includes Giannis and prob Harden as well if he is honest with himself. Anybody who wants a ring wants to go to LA and play with the King. Tristan Thompson is part of Klutch Sports but he couldn't go to LA cuz they can't afford him. You think Herro is gonna be happy with a losing team? He reached the NBA finals as a ROOKIE. All he knows is playoff success. He ain't gonna be happy with a crappy team he gonna want out given how competitive he is. All the issues and risks you are talking about Simmons also applies to Herro.
He is 30 yr old and will be DRose status in 3-4 years. That ain't a foundational piece IMO, I have more confidence in Cousisn having a long career than Wall. At least Cousins can play like Marc Gasol when he is 36.
okay you are absolutely clueless, but i'll bite again. i get that salary cap figures might be too difficult for you, but you can't just blatantly ignore that in any sort of trade discussion. with the miami deal, we have a pretty good guess on who is coming back in salary (andre igoudala, olynyk, herro, robinson/nunn/aichuwa). igoudala is on a 2yr/30M deal that expires in 2022. olynyk is an expiring contract for 12.5M. the only long-term salary rockets would be taking back is igoudala, and that's only for 15M for one more year after this... that's a contract that can be moved. whether or not you regard john wall as a foundational piece, he's stuck on this team until his contract ends 3 years from now. at the supermax, you better operate as if he's a foundational piece with so much money tied into one player. so simmons fit on the team with john wall absolutely matters. and you think herro can't create his own shot or for others...
I know he can create as the 3rd best player in Miami. We don't know if he can create as the first option. Do you know if he can be that dude? I certainly don't. My 10k USD bet Herro never becomes an MVP type player is still waiting for you though, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. What about you? If you are not confident Herro can become an MVP type player why bother trading for him when his ceiling is Simmons' current level? You say I'm clueless but you can't fit 2 and 2 together. Wall's contract expires a year later as the filler you mentioned. If Iggy and Olynk are supposed to be movable cuz they are expiring in 2022 why is John Wall a foundational piece when his deal expires in 2023? So 1 year is the difference between movable contract and foundational piece? As for the Wall/Simmons fit, it's a great fit cuz we got several spacing big men like Cousins, Tucker, Caboclo and Wood. Both Simmons and Wall will be able to penetrate without worry as the space created by all the spacers will open the paint up. Even if Simmons takes just 2 3 pters a season he will still be able to play at an all star level for the Rockets.
So you value expirings more than all star level talent? I didn't know LTS has so many fans on the board.
... lol "You are taking the wrong kind of risk if somebody says you can have a super model as a wife or somebody who can be as beautiful as a supermodel who do you take?" what a sh** analogy. but pretty much shows your train of thought. you do you and keep looking at things at the surface level. wouldn't wanna be in your shoes though. how can the rockets fit in 2 max contracts if herro becomes a true star? again, i know you're weak with numbers... harden supermax comes off with the trade and with igoudala and olynyk coming off soon that's easily 1 max slot. john wall comes off in 3 years, the same time herro is a rfa. that's another max slot. that's already 2 max slots. herro's extension would likely be around 23M-25M a year. with some maneuvering, it's plausible that you can try to fit 2 max slots on top of herro's extension even with eric gordon making 20M a year until 2024. herro could sign a qualifying offer making him an unrestricted free agent one year after his rookie contract ends... but it is extremely rare for a player to forego that much guaranteed money right after his rookie contract. you really need to go back and understand the difference between a restricted free agent and an unrestricted free agent before comparing simmons' and herro's contracts and saying they both have the same flight-risk.
