This only works if Embiid becomes disgruntled and wants a roster shake-up. Or 76ers have another disappointing season. Right now if I'm the 76ers, I wait it out and hope Harden opts out of his last year, then you get a 33 y/o Harden on a favorable contract added to Simmons and Embiid. Until then you have 2 young all stars with a deep roster around them and see what you can do. Simmons is becoming underrated. You try to keep him at all costs, just like the Rockets did with a young James Harden.
Harden hasn't shown even an small sign of decline, though. But that highlights why this whole situation is messy. If the Rockets don't end up trading Harden this season, and Harden goes on to be garbage (either purposely or he's actually declining), then the Rockets lose a lot of leverage.
I was going to post exactly that. Thought I would read the thread first. Harden is great in almost every way but he will only get worse from here. I would assume he has many great years left though.
You can look at the Carmelo trade to the Knicks. Carmelo was still Melo then. Denver received a bunch of assets, no real star back. Gallo was a good prospect at the time but never really reached that next level. Then you have the Kawhi trade which SAS did get a quasi star back in Derozan. You also have the CP3 trade which the Rockets did send over assets too and Trez and Bev and Lou... So the going rate is either a bucket load of assets. I think that's what we'd get from Miami. Herro, draft picks, some other solid prospects. or Another flawed star like Ben Simmons.
That makes me think that if we can just get Harden playing this season, eventually one supposed contender will falter and feel the pressure to make a move. Think: Celtics, Sixers, Heat, Bucks in the East, and Nuggets, Clippers, Warriors, and Lakers in the West. For example, it's not hard to imagine a Harden-for-Kawhi S&T later in the season if the Clippers are sucking under their new HC. The question is, will such a team be willing to give up an up and coming star, a second starter, a role player, AND a couple of 1st rounders to make it happen? As long as Harden starts playing and performs as he has in the past few seasons, the Rox will still have the leverage. If he refuses to play, we're f%$ked.
Rockets fan should prepare for the possibility that Harden is traded for 25 cents on the dollar or not traded at all. The reality that teams aren't clamoring or offering much for Harden could be perception or it could be a reality. 50/50 proposition IMO. Lastly it matters little what value the rockets much less rocket fans place on Harden, what ultimately decides is his perceived valued around the league.
If I'm on Philly's side of things and I'm trying to make an argument for offering less then the easy argument would be the fact that none of the players who the Pelicans received for AD had ever made an All-Start team, All-NBA Team or All-Defensive team. Simmons has already accomplished all of those things. So, I guess the fact that you're trading an established star vs players with potential. That's an argument that could be made. Personally, I wouldn't want Simmons at a $30M salary.
It's not so much his value to other teams as opposed to the assets that teams have to get the deal done. Supposedly, Houston wants an all-star level player or a young star plus loads of draft picks. How many teams can provide a package like that and still have anything left to put around Harden?
Here the thing: The Sixers play in an east coast market. The east coast media is much more harsh than the west coast. Philly been hearing criticism and noise from their media for years especially during the Hinkie tank years. There isn’t anymore added pressure than there already is.
Teams were desperate to get guys like PG, Davis, Jrue, etc. Not sure anybody is desperate to get Harden. The package will be more disappointing than most of you expect.
On what planet is James Harden at the end of his prime?? He's still got a solid 3-4 years left performing at this level, plus another 1-2 where he'll be 75% of what he is now. His game is not predicated on athleticism or burst. He's an all-timer.
Carmelo Anthony(2011) Knicks: Carmelo Anthony, Renaldo Balkman, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter, Shelden Williams, Corey Brewer, 2016 1st round pick TWolves: Eddy Curry, Anthony Randolph, cash, 2015 2nd round pick Nuggets: Kosta Koufos, Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, cash, 2012 2nd round pick, 2013 2nd round pick, 2014 1st round pick, 2016 1st round pick Jimmy Butler 2017: Kris Dunn, Zach LaVine, Lauri Markkanen 2018: Jerryd Bayless, Robert Covington, Dario Šarić, 2022 2nd round pick Anthony Davis(2019) Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, De'Andre Hunter, Brandon Ingram, cash, 2021 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick Paul George(2019) Danilo Gallinari, Shia Gilgeous-Alexander, 2021 1st round pick, 2022 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick, 2025 1st round pick, 2026 1st round pick Blake Griffin(2018) Avery Bradley, Tobias Harris, Boban Marjanović, 2018 1st round pick, 2019 2nd round pick Dwight Howard(2012) Lakers: Dwight Howard, Earl Clark, Chris Duhon Magic: Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Christian Eyenga, Josh McRoberts, Maurice Harkless, Nikola Vucevic, 2013 2nd round pick, 2014 1st round pick, 2017 2nd round pick, 2018 1st round pick Sixers: Andrew Bynum, Jason Richardson Nuggets: Andre Iguodala Kyrie Irving(2017) Jae Crowder, Isaiah Thomas, Ante Žižić, 2018 1st round pick, 2020 2nd round pick Kawhi Leonard(2018) DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Pöltl, 2019 1st round pick Kevin Love(2014) Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins, trade exception Chris Paul 2017: Patrick Beverley, Sam Dekker, Montrezl Harrell, Darrun Hilliard, DeAndre Liggins, Lou Williams, Kyle Wiltjer, cash, 2018 1st round pick 2019: with four 1st round picks for Russell Westbrook 2020: Ty Jerome, Jalen Lecque, Kelly Oubre Jr., Ricky Rubio, 2022 1st round pick Russell Westbrook 2019: Chris Paul, 2021 1st round pick, 2024 1st round pick, 2025 1st round pick, 2026 1st round pick 2020: John Wall, 2023 1st round pick
I forgot the 76ers robbed the T-Wolves blind with the Butler trade... this does not bode well for the Harden situation
That's also a good point and definitely one of the limiting factors. Of the top of my head, the teams that fit the criteria would be, PHI, MIA, BOS, DEN & GS. But the question then comes to value... As in how willing are those teams willing to give up simmons + picks, bam + picks, brownc+ picks, murray + picks and wiseman + picks (incl t-wolves). Perhaps it's debatable that not all of those teams have assets that meet the criteria or that adding Harden makes them contenders. But it's pretty close IMO.
What we should learn from the list is that if you trade a superstar in the NBA you never get equal value back.
AD isn't the best example because he is younger than James. post what stars over 30 are getting back.
Does it matter? If Simmons comes via trade it will be a matter of time before he wants to go to LA or the next Superteam..... Same with any superstar... Its just the way it is now....
Under the CBA, if Harden were to sit out the season, he doesn’t accrue any service time on his contract. He’s not going to sit out.
