Harden's mother: "He is doing the best for his career...He is asking for a chance to get a ring”

I get the temptation and that makes sense but again look at what he’s pulling now with 2 years left on a deal- if it’s 1 year left, he has all the leverage. Look at what AD did to get to LA, harden is trying that brute force method to get to Brooklyn and he’ll do it again next season. His play is his play. He’s a top 6 perennial mvp finisher....the books out on him, everyone know what kind of a special talent he is.

 

It was most of them yes. But he was never in fact good enough as a second option. In the end he pretty much held his teams back.

If Russ was as good as scottie Pippen, we arent having this discussion.

I am, Harden is better than Westbrook and will go down as the better player.

Yea, some but after his MVP season, he's gotten worth and wasnt a positive on our squad in particular. We were worse with him on the floor. He's gotten worse every single year since his MVP season. And all the good players he's played with dont really want to play with him.

He didnt in terms of shot selection. That is by definition not listening. You like Russ way too much.

 

Maybe if he had stepped up against Golden and San Antonio he would have one.

 

Agreed..... the guy parties way too much. Not serious with his craft - not a true leader - actions speak louder than words, like not being active and in camp. Winners win... plain and simple.

 

Did we decide that after the series and after looking at numbers? Or did we decide that during the series? Why does Dort, who can't shoot or do anything offensively, even play if his game score is so low that he would have been better off benched?

Everyone that watched that series saw the defense he played on Harden, including Donovan who knows a thing or two about defense.

Going by games score we're going to have to decide if Russ was really as bad as we thought he was. It was 2nd on the team against the Lakers and also 3rd overall in the series...

 

He won’t sit out; won’t turn down his paper.... but I can see a “hamstring” and other nagging injuries forcing him to sit out long periods of time since he doesn’t want to be in Houston.

 

we’ll just be grooming Ben Simmons for LA

 

I can agree with that to an extent. I would think/hope Harden would be more excited about this team than he is, but maybe he's also tired of getting his hopes up, which I can kinda empathize with. A lot of things still have to go right for our team to win a title this year. Even in what [IMO] can be considered the most reasonable best case scenario; where Harden fully buys in, Cousins and Wall stay healthy and become 90% as good as they used to be, Wood balls out, Gordon rediscovers his shot, House continues to develop; this team is still not necessarily a slam dunk, even though it may seem like it on paper. Cousins and Wall have a history (however valid) of some chemistry issues, and of not really making teams better. For example, despite huge offseason hype, NOP hardly got any better with a healthy Cousins in the lineup next to Davis. If you recall, they made their big playoff push AFTER he got hurt a couple years ago and Davis was leading the charge... And that's a best case scenario! (though maybe we'll end up being better with Woods rather than Cousins getting most of our C minutes)

Granted, Harden is better than anyone those two have played with before, and maybe I'm not giving them enough credit in assessing the potential of this team, but I understand being more excited to play with Durant than Cousins. (Though either way, he's rolling the dice on an Achilles or two, heh)

"Why didn't he shoot better?" is a gross oversimplification of the situation and of the root cause of the problem.

Harden (and the Rockets) was defending the single best offensive team of all time on on one end, while trying to score on a top three defensive team of that season on offense... with a six-man rotation. AND while Harden was the only real playmaker we had left after Paul got hurt. The burden on Harden to beat a 4-all-star team by himself was truly unprecedented. If anything, it was amazing how well he performed considering. I think that is also the real reason we missed so many 3s in game 7. Legs. Harden started both games amazingly, too, but whether you're Jordan or you're Harden, your gas tank is only so big. None of those guys ever single-handedly carried a team like the Rockets past a team like the Warriors.

 

EDIT: double post

 

The optics are so bad but it's actually worse when you consider..., millions of folks jobless, thousands of lost lives, KAT burying almost a dozen family members, minority injustices, and yet player decides to go whining super spreader for a piece of metal?!

Speaking personally, I've lost a lot of respect for Harden with this demonstration of his and I can't be the only one. I'm very disappointed and a bit heartbroken.

 

not to mention giving bricks of cash (that will probably be regifted) to your rapper friend who is already rich.

 

Harden had other capable guards. Gordon was a really good penetrator in the playoffs. He was very aggressive.

Yes, I'm sorry. People will forgive you more if your team loses but you play great. Harden didn't. He shoots poorly, gets like 6+ turnovers, shoots below league average in 3s in game 6 and 7. Your team can be **** around you but you can play well. It just means you'll probably lose bit at least show it wasn't your fault by being efficient.

Harden also is very passive in closing situsrions in the playoffs. He doesn't like moving his feet to get himself open so it's very easy to deny Harden the ball in the 4th quarter of tight playoff games hence why he disappears so often in late stages of games in the playoffs.

 

Not if Houston showers him with love and respect AND you surround him with more of his Aussie buds:

Thybulle
Broekhoff
Bolden
Baynes
Mills
Dellavedova

*Weaver already on staff

Or just win a F'ing championship!

 

No, dude. No matter how good you are, if you're playing against an elite, all-time caliber team with great defense, and you are the obvious focal point of the offense, you're going to shoot like crap. The defense just smothers you, and there's nothing you can do with [a winded] Ariza and Tucker as your outlets bricking open 3s. Just look at LeBron in the 2015 finals, or the 2007 finals for that matter. Look at Kobe in, like, every game 7 ever. Even when his team was stacked. Every once in a while, a player will have a miracle in a game like that, but it's never reproducible.

And you can't compare Gordon to the squad that GS had around... whoever you considered their best player. The imbalance was unprecedented. Gordon was nowhere near the scorer or playmaker of either Harden or Paul. He's just a guy that spells you for a couple plays or open 3s.

Is it possible that Lebron or Jordan would have carried us to the promised land even after Paul got hurt? Highly unlikely, but sure, maybe. Especially with Foster off their nuts. They are better players. What's your point? Why does Harden need to be Jordan to be worthy of your respect?

 

Based on what? So, you take Westbrook off OKC those PG years they do better? Is that what you're seriously saying right now?

Just take Russ off, he 'holds them back' so take him off, PG13 beats the Jazz and Blazers?

Agreed. I keep saying this over and over again but whenever I dare say "Westbrook has had an amazing career" people come after me with "HARDEN IS BETTER!"

I get it, he had an MVP award when Harden shouldn't have had one but we have to move on from that at some point.

Is that what they say? They don't say that. Because Durant went to form a historic team in a bigger market and PG13 went to go play for his hometown team doesn't mean they don't want to play with him. Like Lebron leaving Miami didn't mean he didn't want to play with Wade. He wanted to go home and deliver a championship to his hometown.

Adams seemed loyal to Russ till the very end. We don't even have 'whispers' of people not wanting to play with Russ. Almost everything we've heard about him is he's an amazing teammate, publicly, and anonymously...until he came here at least.

Not listening to who? Do you know the scope of this conversation? It could easily have been a lower assistant coach suggesting him play this way and Russ shrugging it off. We know there are many people in the organization and sometimes players listen to them and sometimes they don't.

I mean ****, the Astros ignored their own head coach when it came to using cameras and trashcans and instead followed behind the hitting coach...and some of them didn't. This is just an example of how not everyone in the organization might not be behind an idea.

Maybe some people wanted Russ to follow the data and maybe some were fine with how he was. Listening to Durant, he says he was fine with how Russ played.

 

Dont be obtuse dude, you know what I mean. He played like garbage in the playoffs and they lost, this is what I mean.And he could never cut it as a second option because his flaws are glaring.

Durant left beause he couldnt win there and wanted to live in Cali, both can be reasons. Same for PG. Lebron left Miami because he couldnt win there.

Adams is a role player. He's not a bad teammate or leader, you just cant win with him as your second best player.

 

You just completely glossed over my premise.

I said, I expected the Rockets to lose after CP3 went down.

But just because the other team is superior doesn't mean you lose while having atrocious stats yourself and shoot below league average 3pt percentage. He can show he played well but his team lost. He didn't. He played poorly like he usually does in closing moments of series.

Does he have to shoot 30% from three? Does he have to get 9 turnovers in game 7? No he doesn't have to do those things.

 

This is the most saddening thing to read bro. Cmon man,

 

He's been here for 8 years. He's been carrying us for most of it. We have a terrible owner who has made us much worse.

You can't question Harden's loyalty at all. I don't blame him for wanting out. Tilman is the reason we're in this ****. We gave up our future for Paul and Westbrook and got awful trades in return.

 

At this point James Harden and his mother can kiss my ass