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[Woj] [Shams] Rockets trade Westbrook for Wall

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by mikol13, Dec 2, 2020.

  1. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Those are from 3
     
  2. icewill36

    icewill36 Member

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    And? We lacked the versatility to win in different ways. They made adjustments we had no counter for.... and why ? Because they were BETTER. Why is this hard to comprehend? Get your heads out of your asses
     
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  3. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Nvm
     
    #903 HP3, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
  4. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    No because Mike didnt make simple adjustments he could have made. And we had no answer for them DOUBLE TEAMING HARDEN BECAUSE WESTBROOK COULD NOT RUN A 4v3, nor can he shoot to save his life. Please stop making these posts.
     
  5. j@amc

    j@amc Member

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    Good point on media bias. Also, unless I'm mistaken Westbrook was "playing hurt" in the bubble which would explain why he was so poor in wide-open situations. Many analysts seem to think that he will be healthy and continue to play at a high level. I've got serious doubts about all of that.

    Tangent: While Westbrook had "great stats" last year, he was filling that second-star role that Harden creates on the court. I would think any quality NBA guard could adjust to having no one guard them, or rotations that allow them to get to their best shot. If Westbrook had true ability to adapt, like Rajon Rondo, he would have won more than one ring in his career already. Rondo has made a career out of playing with great players and finding stretches of good guard play. But Westbrook's charge ahead, turnover-prone style was a terrible fit next to Harden. ​

    With Wall, it's pretty modest to claim that the Rockets are adding an above-average facilitator since he ranks sixth all-time in NBA history in assists per game. Chris Paul is the only active player that averages more assists per game than Wall. It takes a certain level of skill and understanding of the game to generate that many shots for teammates.

    Wall also offers that elite one-man fast break that Houston needs since Harden is so prone to playing that medium-slow style. You can also pair Gordon with Wall and run a five-out offense with some off-the-ball movement. Wall has the athleticism to finish at the rim on those plays when a defense breaks down.

    I'd give Houston a C on this trade because Houston gets so little in return. My best guess is that in 2023 the Wizards implode and land in the lottery (so no pick). In 2024, the Wizards might lose Beal to free agency. It's not unrealistic to see them in the lower half of the league if he walks. They would need to land outside the top 12 for Houston to get a higher pick. So if the Wizard franchise treads water or is rebuilding, we could have a mid to low first-rounder. But that's still a pretty low return.

    The Wizards get a B because they traded their 5-time all-star, who has career averages of 19 pts 9 assists 4 rebounds--the former #1 overall in 2010--and didn't get a single pick in return. You can't earn an A for that kind of trade.
     
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  6. jakedasnake

    jakedasnake Member

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    Agreed, that ACL tear happened last August too and those are nothing compared to an achilles rupture. Now does it mean he was overcompensating from achilles and quad injuries? Maybe, he is still only 30 and actually did look pretty good coming back from 1 major injury. Let’s see if he can do it again but remain healthy. Will be tough to do with the weight he carries around.

    As for everyone just assuming Durant will be Durant but Cousins AND Wall will be trash, i find that ironic as well. Wall has been recovered for a long time now, longer than Durant I believe. Maybe it is because of Wall’s injury history but either way it is in the realm of possibility that a smaller younger guy like Wall recovers from his achilles tear better than Durant.
     
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  7. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    So what some guys are recommending is not move a player who has already demanded a trade, who is not the best player on the team, and who had not reported. You guys want to force him to report and then inject all that positivity into the other guys? Not gonna happen. Westbrook would have been a cancer. He would have thrown plays. Would have done anything necessary to get shipped and he would have burned the team down in the process.

    The return may not be what some guys want understandably. Getting hung up on a pick that is almost certainly going to be used as ammo in another deal is nothing to get worked up over. Team chemistry should be much better with John Wall. As friendly as James and Russ are there were times last year where things looked disorganized while both guys were vying for the head of the table. James goes back to the alpha and everyone else on the team will know their role, and I expect them to play well and support James into the playoffs yet again. If guys just make their open shots this team should press any other squad out there as assembled - and im sure Stoney is not done yet.
     
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  8. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  9. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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    Woj saying Harden had a preference of Wall over Westbrook. (2:08 mark)
     
    #909 jim1961, Dec 3, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2020
    matchesmalone likes this.
  10. Hank McDowell

    Hank McDowell Member

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    This is an interesting question. I think he does, but it’s possible they could try something different I guess.
     
  11. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  12. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.
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    My knee jerk time is complete...

    John Wall definitely has the potential to fit better next to Harden. Little better shooting, and he can't possibly think he's here to compete for lead dog with Harden like I guess CP and Westbrook have been doing for 2 seasons. Coming off that injury, anything positive is indeed a positive. And unless Harden is out next, I think this pairing should provide the same kind of scoring punch CP/Harden had in '18. Feel like they've still got work to do getting bigger at the forward position though, Ariza, Moute, Tucker (with Capela at the pivot) is such a stronger line than...House, Tucker...uh...Nwaba?

    I wonder how much of this year's damaging offseason rumor mill was on behalf of Westbrook's camp. Rockets need to find a way to clean that up because it's been getting worse every year for like 4 seasons in a row.
     
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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    Anyone have the team’s efficiency rating when Harden was on the court and off the court this past season? I know it was a huge difference but I can’t find the exact numbers.

    If Rockets can do better with Harden off the court this season, they are a top 2-3 team in the West. If not, they’ll be around 4 or worse. The team was awful last season when Harden was off and Westbrook was on...shouldn’t be hard to improve there, whether Wall plays or not. If they do improve, the trade was worth it...if not, it was a bad trade.
     
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  15. IslandB.O.I.

    IslandB.O.I. Member

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    I had forgotten about the ACL. So it was an achilles. Then a torn quad. Then an ACL. I wouldn’t say the concerns are unfounded.
     
  16. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I don't think there's any pressure at all on Harden personally. I think he's thinking its win win. Either the new makeup of the team creates a newfound contender, or it doesn't work and Stone is forced to trade Harden mid season.

    If the team gets off to a slow start and it looks like we aren't a true contender I think its a give that Harden is then gone. Stone is banking on the first 30 games being make or break for Harden's legacy in Houston.

    I think the Wall trade is setup to be a situation where if the team does have to move Harden, Wall is a better fit on a team that is re-tooling, or re-building. If Wall is healthy, and Harden is traded, there's a chance with Boogie, E-Go, Tucker, Wood, etc. that this team is a still a fun team to watch that can be sneaky competitive in the 4-8 seed in the playoffs. If not, well then you'd probably rather have Wall as your highly paid veteran on a rebuilding team than Westbrook who won't empower young players, and will stat stuff, ball hog, and act like a weirdo in the locker room. Wall is also very community oriented, and will be a good face in the community for the team during a rebuild.
     
  17. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    They even said the same for Wall in terms of his Achilles injury saying that he might be back at 80% etc. My point is an Achilles injury is a serious one and the data is inconclusive as to the number of players fully bouncing back into their form pre injury. All three of these guys have the same injury. Historically NBA players tend to bounce back from ACL injuries as it doesn’t affect their play as much. But why is the narrative different for one guy? Just by guessing and saying “oh well since Cousins has an additional ACL injury” his career must be over doesn’t hold much weight and is guess work. Not based on knowledge data or facts.
     
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  18. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/texas-sports-nation/rockets/article/Rockets-trade-Russell-Westbrook-Wizards-John-Wall-15771057.php

    Originally teammates in Oklahoma City, Westbrook and Harden had pushed to be reunited in the summer of 2019. Never entirely comfortable and often dissatisfied with his fit in the Rockets’ backcourt with Harden, however, Westbrook asked last month to be traded.

    There had not been any issues with Westbrook’s reporting for the start of training camp, and the Rockets planned to try to make their returning backcourt work. But trade talks with Washington that had been dormant for weeks restarted Wednesday, leading to the deal.

    It is unclear how Harden, who himself has pushed to be dealt to the Brooklyn Nets, will react to the move and the Rockets’ other offseason additions, particularly centers Christian Wood and DeMarcus Cousins. But the Rockets are much more hesitant to move their longtime star guard.

     
  19. Fantasma Negro

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    Bring back Beasley!!
     
  20. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    People saying we should have gotten more.

    Nobody wanted Westbrook, the best we could have hoped for is a bad team willing to take Westbrook for trash (and likely a full rebuild for us), or swapping him for an equally flawed star and taking one last gamble with Harden. We were never gonna trade Westbrook for another great player or pick haul.

    People need to stop worrying about what we gave up for Westbrook, it was an abysmal trade (plenty of us realized it at the time) but it's over. We're stuck with Tilman and OKC has our picks, all Stone could do is deal with the reality he inherited.
     

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