1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Biden Cabinet

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Carl Herrera, Nov 7, 2020.

  1. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    21,310
    Likes Received:
    11,755
    [​IMG]
     
    Commodore likes this.
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,010
    Likes Received:
    41,997
    I'm not sure how many people get he extent of the damage done to the government the last four years. Before the Biden Administration can get much done they need to get capable administrators to undo the damage done first.

    It's going to be hard to run government to meet the current crisis before tackling major change.
     
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,387
    Likes Received:
    54,275
    Its like cornyn and haley were on a vacation on another planet the past four years...

     
    No Worries and FranchiseBlade like this.
  4. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    @glynch

    Is the American Enterprise Institute bought and paid for?
     
  5. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    18,316
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    The Planet Hypocrisy where irony does not exist.
     
    dobro1229 likes this.
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,387
    Likes Received:
    54,275
    Same planet senator thune lived on apparently...

     
    #226 NewRoxFan, Dec 1, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2020
  7. ryan_98

    ryan_98 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    709
    Wait and see is the proper stance here. However past performance is indicative of future results.

    Obama wasn't horrible nor was he great. He left a lot to be desired. So, it seems that we're set for continuing policies that benefit big banks and the war machine. This is based on the statements and actions of these people.


    Millennials and Gen-Z are far from experts or authorities on any of these matters but as we/they become more prominent the government and policies should reflect that.

    I would argue TPP and Iran treaty are 20th century ideas not 21st. The GND on the other hand is an example of a forward looking if highly flawed proposal.

    Which takes us to the big point of how does it pass Congress. The answer is it doesn't. We will continue down the path of mediocrity. Hence my lament. The cabinet and policies will be what we thought (knew) the were.
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,343
    Likes Received:
    25,358
    Labeling ideas as generational or "21st century" doesn't really do much except sound buzzwordy. Maybe an elevator pitch would help the conversation.

    Everyone has ideas, and communicating them is becoming more crucial in this era if only to hammer out distortions by the opposition.

    Republicans are good at taking these abstract policies and grinding out perspectives on how it affects Americans and their paycheck.

    That's a big reason why we don't have universal healthcare, immigration reform or even infrastructure reform. They took the worst aspects of Obamacare (which were Con proposals decades ago), then magnified it as the essence of Obamacare despite people favoring the majority of the plan. They also understood people would rather have free lunches than suck up to paying for something they can benefit from.
     
    joshuaao, Deckard and ryan_98 like this.
  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    23,984
    Likes Received:
    19,876
    I would say Republicans are good at consistent and repetitive messaging of fear. It typically lacks any substance or nuance and requires a willing ignorance at the citizen level but it has worked since FoxNews came into existence and took Rush’s daytime talking points into the prime time hours.

    Their messaging doesn’t have to be factual or really any good... but it serves a purpose to give an out to Republican supporting citizens who just need some excuse to support any given topic. The purpose of Republican propaganda isn’t to win the argument with facts and relevance. The purpose is just a defense mechanism to avoid true debate.

    EX: I just can’t vote for Biden because of Socialism...

    Like where do you even go with someone that says that. Obviously they are ignorant and obviously they will be defensive, and obviously discussing to them government run goods and services vs capitalism will just go over their heads. Republican propaganda works here not because of good messaging but because of the willing ignorance of the citizens.
     
    #229 dobro1229, Dec 2, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2020
    joshuaao and Deckard like this.
  10. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Messages:
    3,490
    Likes Received:
    1,503
    [​IMG]
    @tinman
     
  11. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    54,387
    Likes Received:
    54,275
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    This.
     
  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    What policies under Biden and his cabinet are not reflecting what millenials and Gen Z voters.

    How are speaking for the majority of Millenials and Gen zers's ( I am a Gen Z).

    You can argue about the TPP and the Iran treaty but that does not make you right.

    What is a 21st century idea about Iran or China?
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    43,343
    Likes Received:
    25,358
    That sounds like an excuse for someone unwilling to become better at messaging or for someone complacent of their own party's shortcomings.

    People voted in Obama twice and it wasn't because he offered them free phones.

    Dismissing ignorant people is possible as a person, but not as a politician or civil servant.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,882
    Likes Received:
    36,460
    This unilateral disarmament thing is not going to work other than to appease a bunch of guys who write for the Times and Post and some twitter people.

    Not commenting on Wray, but we know where this is all heading.

    It's kind out of the "well, McConnell can't possibly reject Merrick Garland! he's very moderate, mitch will pay!" school of thought.
     
    Nook likes this.
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    47,425
    Likes Received:
    17,051
    This was part of the package with Biden, unfortunately.

    It'll make the civility p*rn people giddy. Good for them. "Muh norms!"
     
  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853
    Civility p*rn?

    WTF?
     
  18. ryan_98

    ryan_98 Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    2,414
    Likes Received:
    709
    As mentioned, it remains to be seen what actions a Biden administration takes but his priorities (forced or chosen) are not in alignment with the younger generation.

    For example, he's going to have to focus on the corona virus and near-term economic stimulus right out of the gate. Now, many people (regardless of age) would say this is important, and I'd agree. It will unfortunately consume the first part of his term precluding him from focusing on other policies.

    That doesn't mean he won't be able to achieve other objectives like re-entry to the Paris climate agreement and Iran treaty. These are probably in line with what younger people like. But herein lies the issue I mentioned earlier. These deals are half steps not leaps. But good steps none-the-less.

    But if he's working towards that, will 46 work towards an improved healthcare system; prison reform and drug decriminalization; college tuition; income inequality. We can hope he's changed his tune but Biden's past voting record (harsher prison sentences and no escaping student loans) doesn't indicate this. Nor do the people he's appointing to cabinet positions.

    We have over 30 years of data on trade agreements like these. We can see the good and bad that come from these deals. There's economic benefit for businesses and consumers and it comes at the expense of employees (US workers) and the environment.

    And as previously stated, his hands will be tied due to congress and these sovereign nations.

    If you're doing great then chances are your station won't change much and I'm happy for you. Hold on to that slice of pie while you can. There is a large portion of the US citizenry going without and their disposition isn't likely to improve.

    Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
     
  19. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2015
    Messages:
    21,011
    Likes Received:
    16,853

    I agree with most of this but I am still waiting on this 21st century idea to make it all better.

    With most things there are some good and some bad and we know trade agreements or now thought of as evil to workers but the numbers say differently.

    https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/naftas-impact-u-s-economy-facts/

    "Supporters of NAFTA estimate that some 14 million jobs rely on trade with Canada and Mexico combined, and the nearly 200,000 export-related jobs created annually by NAFTA pay an average salary of 15% to 20% more than the jobs that were lost, according to a PIIE study. Furthermore, the study found that only about 15,000 jobs on net are lost each year due to NAFTA. “On our reckoning, since NAFTA’s enactment, fewer than 5% of U.S. workers who have lost jobs from sizable layoffs (such as when large plants close down) can be attributed to rising imports from Mexico,” wrote its authors, PIIE senior fellow Gary Clyde Hufbauer and research analyst Cathleen Cimino-Isaacs. For the roughly 200,000 out of 4 million people who lose their jobs annually under these circumstances, the job losses can be attributed to rising imports from Mexico, they wrote, but “almost the same number of new jobs has been created annually by rising U.S. exports to Mexico.” Moreover, “For every net job lost in this definition, the gains to the U.S. economy were about $450,000, owing to enhanced productivity of the workforce, a broader range of goods and services, and lower prices at the checkout counter for households.”

    The TPP would be opening major emerging markets for the U.S.

    I am not a economist so I am sure you can make the numbers go either way but not doing trade deals is not the panacea to correct what is happening to US jobs and workers.

    So again I ask what is the leap?

    Is a leap even possible?

    I have no issue with new ideas or bold leaps but I have an issue with people thinking there are magic bullets or new ways of thinking that will fix everything even the GND will cost jobs and has some hopeful numbers going on.

    I mean look at this.

    "Economists such as Ha-Joon Chang and Alice Amsden have shown how active industrial policy, including export promotion, has as a rule been associated with economic success stories and development “miracles” historically (2). The effects of export promotion built into these policies aren’t directly captured in the input-output multipliers used to calculate new jobs estimates, but have dramatic potential to position U.S. manufacturing in the center of a new global industry for renewables and green technology, just as the original Marshall Plan played no small part in the US position in the postwar era as a heavy manufactured commodity exporter. The extension of the input-output model to roughly estimate new exports and induced activity calls attention to this likelihood."

    How is that all that different than TPP?

    https://www.dataforprogress.org/warren-green-jobs-plan

    They both base job growth on export promotion, suppose somebody else comes up with the magic bullet of renewables besides the US?
     
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    23,984
    Likes Received:
    19,876
    I literally said because of good messaging. The Republicans are good at messaging because they have such a robust propaganda infrastructure where there is ample discipline from top down to the citizen level. It’s not factual or nuanced which is why I said it takes willful ignorance.

    Which is why I’ve been critical of people like Tom Steyer who instead of spending millions campaigning for president could have bought a bunch of radio stations of digital media companies. The Dems just don’t have that media infrastructure which is the engine that drives the effectiveness of the messaging. So it’s more than just good messaging. It’s 3 or 4 key things the Dems don’t have.
     
    Dubious and Invisible Fan like this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now