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“I hope the President realizes that if we leave, the debate will become ‘Who lost Afghanistan?’ ”

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Republicans the stronger party on Defense!

    Bush kept us safe...after 9/11 by getting into 2 trillion dollar clutster****s. Bless them for saving God N' country!!

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/why-trump-carried-out-his-pentagon-purge
    ...
    ...But he has not achieved a total withdrawal, which he has blamed on his Defense Secretaries—principally Esper and his predecessor, James Mattis. Trump “felt like he has been slow-walked ever since he came into office,” the Administration official said. “Now with Esper gone, he can do it.”

    A former U.S. official who meets with senior policymakers confirmed this description of Trump’s intentions. “It’s all up in the air now,” he said, of America’s Afghan policy.

    The situation in Afghanistan is tenuous. In February, American and Taliban diplomats signed an agreement, by which the United States would withdraw all of its forces once security conditions in Afghanistan were stable. But Trump has been reducing the number of U.S. troops even though the conditions have not yet been met. American officials say that the President has been undercutting his own negotiators and emboldening the Taliban. “The trouble with the Taliban is, they are getting everything for free now,” an American official told me.

    It’s not clear that there would be enough time to pull off a full withdrawal before Trump leaves office. Afghanistan is landlocked, and surrounded by countries that are either hostile to the U.S. or difficult to traverse. America’s NATO allies also have a total of ten thousand troops in the country, and the U.S. would have to assist their withdrawal.

    A complete pullout would have serious consequences. Most diplomats and military commanders agree that, without continued American financial and military support, Afghanistan’s government and armed forces would eventually collapse. The American official said, “I hope the President realizes that if we leave, the debate will become ‘Who lost Afghanistan?’ ”

    Many American and Afghan leaders fear that a total withdrawal would turn Afghanistan’s long-festering civil war into a full-on conflagration. An Afghan leader told me that groups across the political spectrum were preparing themselves. “Everyone can see what is happening, and they’re arming,” he said.

    As Trump fired Esper, his campaign officials continued an aggressive campaign to overturn the results of the Presidential election, filing lawsuits that alleged voter fraud and pressing Republican-controlled state legislatures in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and elsewhere to award electoral votes to President Trump. “The pressure to overturn the voters is very real,” a Democratic elected official in Michigan told me. “I will not celebrate Biden’s victory until he’s taken the oath.”

    The Administration official told me that the drama around the election was mostly political theatre, intended to salve Trump’s bruised ego. “Everyone around the President knows it’s over—except for him,” the official said. Attorney General William Barr recently sent a letter to U.S. attorneys, directing them to look into allegations of voter fraud; the official maintained that Barr was trying to placate Trump while alerting prosecutors to ignore anything short of substantial fraud. “He was telling prosecutors the rule of law is going to be followed,” the official said.

    The Administration official said that several people around Trump were trying to persuade him to concede his loss to President-elect Joe Biden—a manifestly unpleasant task. Since November 3rd, Trump’s mood has shifted from denial to anger, he added. “We view that as progress,” he said.

    After displacing Esper, Trump presided over other tumultuous firings and hirings in America’s security institutions. At the Pentagon, he removed several senior officials and installed four new ones, many of whom are associates or former employees of Representative Devin Nunes, a fervent supporter of Trump. In early 2017, when Nunes was the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he called a press conference to announce that a whistle-blower in the intelligence community had shared with him classified documents that exonerated the President of any improper actions concerning Russia during the 2016 election. It turned out that the documents’ real source was a group of Trump aides, who showed them to Nunes during a late-night visit to the White House. Nunes was forced to step aside from his committee’s investigation into Russian election interference while the House Ethics Committee investigated him for illegally disclosing classified information. Nunes was ultimately exonerated.

    Two of the White House aides who showed the documents to Nunes were given significant new jobs this week. One of them, Ezra Cohen-Watnick, was fired after the Nunes scandal by H. R. McMaster, Trump’s national-security adviser at the time. This week, Cohen-Watnik was appointed as the Pentagon’s acting Under-Secretary of Defense for Intelligence. The other, Michael Ellis, was installed as a legal counsel to the National Security Agency, which oversees a worldwide surveillance and intelligence-gathering network. As my colleague Jonathan Blitzer reported, Trump made similar moves in the Department of Homeland Security, ousting two high-ranking officials. A former senior national-security official said, “It’s a purging of the agencies of anyone who isn’t one-hundred-per-cent loyal, and who isn’t willing to do whatever the President wants, no matter how corrupt.”

    This week’s personnel changes have inspired concerns, inside and outside the government, that Trump will order a large-scale release of classified material that he believes will benefit him politically—but which could damage America’s relationships with its allies and hinder intelligence gathering. The former senior national-security official said that Trump’s principal goal is to release a trove of intelligence that he believes could disprove suspicions he worked with Russian agents during the 2016 election—or, despite the unanimous findings of America’s intelligence agencies, could disprove that Russia interfered at all. Gina Haspel, the director of the C.I.A., has vigorously opposed declassifying the material, arguing that it could cause severe harm to U.S. allies, and to agents working on behalf of American intelligence. Trump wanted to fire Haspel to clear the way for the declassifications, but so far has held off.

    With some ten weeks remaining before Trump’s Administration comes to an end, it remains possible that he will remove Haspel, along with Christopher Wray, the head of the F.B.I. The senior congressional aide told me, “I think we’re going to see more firings of professional people and more stooges put in their places.” The Administration official said that many people around the President are hoping he will simply take a break. But the official thought that Trump would step down on January 20th, even if he does not concede. “He’s not going to barricade himself in the White House,” the official said. “He’ll go.”​
     
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  2. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Trump should write a book about how not to negotiate a deal. Oh, wait ...
     
  3. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    The good news is, nobody does any work between Thanksgiving and Christmas anyway.

    I'd assume it would take much more than 65 days to prepare a full withdrawal from Afghanistan.
     
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  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    To Afghanistan



    Byyyyeeee Felicia
     
  5. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    How simpletons think
     
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  6. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Well it is virtually nothing trump administration is really helps average American, but it would be great if you actually withdrew our troops from Afghanistan. Crazy trump does not care about what the elites thinks of them give us the present of withdrawing from Afghanistan.

    We have lost in Afghanistan. Aside from destroying the initial bin Laden base we have accomplished virtually nothing and so people who lost Afghanistan have been George Bush, Barack Obama and trump as well as all of our generals. The loss should not be blamed on the usual suspects, the liberal media, the left, as was done when we lost in Vietnam
     
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  7. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Well it is virtually nothing the trump administration has done that really helps the average American, but it would be great if he actually withdrew our troops from Afghanistan. Crazy trump does not care about the bi-partisan elite's love for regime change wars and the military industrial complex.

    We have lost in Afghanistan. Aside from destroying the initial bin Laden base we have accomplished virtually nothing in 20 years and the Taliban as the largest group will still be in control and a major player if we stay for another 20 years. So the people who lost Afghanistan have been George Bush, Barack Obama and trump as well as all of our generals-- all of them who refuse to accept the reality. The loss should not be blamed on the usual suspects, the liberal media, the left, as was done when we lost in Vietnam or Iraq --unless you still view that debacle as worthwhile
     
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  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Broken clocks

    There is nothing nothing in the article that gives a reason to stay other than Trump's ego is driving his motivation.

    ISIS is no longer in the news. It may not maybe Trump's success but something is different there and we can't remain on speculation
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    How dick riders post
     
  10. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    Again, I don’t think you know half of what you post. It’s 8am... a little early don’t ya think
     
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  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Dick rider

    Who started the insulting? Then you wanna be high and almighty. Whatever bro

    Dick rider two step

    1. Insult pgabriel
    2. Claim high ground after getting called out
     
  12. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    The military knows how to slow-roll things very well. Even if they get the order to leave now, they would schedule many “meetings” and have many “delays” until Trump was out of office. They aren’t stupid.

    I’d love for the troops to be out of Afghanistan, but if we go now, we’re basically inviting the next big terrorist group to have free reign in that area of the world. We’d also hurt our response time if something broke out in that area of the world that needed our attention...it’s a strategic strong point where we have none otherwise.
     
  13. TWS1986

    TWS1986 SPX '05, UH' 19

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    Got em.
     
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  14. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    I think I’m just living rent free is all. Gotta work on yourself
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    You showed up to respond to me yet in another thread. Talk about stupidity you don't know how rent free works you're so obsessed. Stop the derailment

    Dude shows up to respond to me yet in another thread and says he is my head. No b**** you showed up in my alerts
     
    #15 pgabriel, Nov 15, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  16. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Nobody has ever won Afghanistan. What are we arguing about again?
     
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  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    If you want to use an ad homenim to go after another poster, which i get everybody does from time to time, at least choose one that wouldn't have made your mother blush.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    edit
     
    #18 pgabriel, Nov 15, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  19. IBTL

    IBTL Member
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    do you feel like a coalition force should stick around to maintain what has been built?
    this is just trump trying to say he ended the war and get legacy points on his way out.
    i believe most at its core are not in favor of occupation or huge presence past prevention and slow down of al qaida camps and people not trying to chop folks heads off all the time
     
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  20. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    That assumes you intend to do it correctly.
     
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