1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Putin and Russia have won against us

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rockbox, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. biina

    biina Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    and you are very wrong. Republican White votes by election
    1988 - 60%
    1992 - 40%
    1996 - 46%
    2000 - 55%
    2004 - 58%
    2008 - 55%
    2012 - 59%
    2016 - 58%

    Now go back to your pre-school class
     
    dmoneybangbang and RayRay10 like this.
  2. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,895
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    Here is a study that looked into the impact of "fake news" stories on the 2016 election:

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4429952-Fake-News-May-Have-Contributed-to-Trump-s-2016.html

    From the conclusion:


    We must reiterate that, given the inability to determine temporal order in a single-wave
    cross-sectional survey, we cannot prove that belief in fake news “caused” these former Obama
    voters to defect from the Democratic candidate in 2016. These data strongly suggest, however,
    that exposure to fake news did have a significant impact on voting decisions. What is not clear is
    if this influence was sufficient to have determined the outcome of this election. That
    determination would require a much larger survey sample (enabling us to undertake a state-bystate analysis) and an analytical scope that would have included its impact on the behavior of
    independents and new voters. But since Clinton lost the Presidency by 77,744 votes cast in the
    key battleground states of Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin—just 0.6 percent of the votes
    cast in those states—even a modest impact of fake news might have been decisive.​

    What effect Russia specifically had, I don't know. That's hard to measure. I would not assume their efforts had no effect, as you seem to be arguing. The 2016 election was very close in critical swing states, so a multitude of different factors could have turned the result.
     
    B-Bob, Deckard and RayRay10 like this.
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,812
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    Thanks for the numbers i have to check my sources.

    @Major and @durvasa

    Sorry that 54% was wrong, something about validated voters, don't know what that means
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,812
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    Exactly even this source says may" have had an impact.

    I used to be up in arms about our intelligence agencies saying Russia influenced the election but they never make that claim
     
  5. biina

    biina Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    You should learn to look for objective and/or cross validate any source that may have bias or push an agenda
     
    dmoneybangbang and RayRay10 like this.
  6. durvasa

    durvasa Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    38,895
    Likes Received:
    16,451
    I don't think Trump wins in 2016 without the help of fake news on social media, and I don't think his 2020 campaign is as close as it was without it. His rise within the Republican ranks was also fueled by misinformation.

    What role Russia played in all of that is difficult to say. Russian officials claim those involved in disseminating the fake news are just random trolls, but that's not what our intelligence indicates. So, if it is in fact state-directed, clearly they were attempting to influence our electoral process somehow. That's enough reason to take it very seriously.
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,812
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    Trump trounced the Republican field in 2016. It was ripe for a populist. Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, and Rubio dont need any help to be beaten on the national stage where personality counts

    Secondly, Americans know how to decipher information on the interwebs. Russia isn't the only bad actor in terms of disinformation
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,622
    Likes Received:
    14,357
    The fact that Trump won.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,812
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    So him getting more votes this is also proof? Is your response serious? Most people vote the same every election
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,622
    Likes Received:
    14,357
    Is it a coincidence the same thing is said about Brexit and Russians?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  11. dmoneybangbang

    Joined:
    May 5, 2012
    Messages:
    22,622
    Likes Received:
    14,357
    Haha no. But you haven't shown why disinformation isn't relevant. The Russians essentially paid for political ads on social media.....

    Is social media politically effective?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,934
    Likes Received:
    41,492
    Sure, I'm aware of all that, I'm looking at this from Russia's perspective - the country, not the regime - what did they actually win? You can't eat pwns, memes and schaudenfreude.
     
    Deckard, B-Bob and RayRay10 like this.
  13. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    But the siege of Stanlingrad though. :oops:
     
    SamFisher, Deckard and RayRay10 like this.
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,812
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    It has no effect on elections. Americans aren't stupid.

    Just like Hilary's emails, the only people who read them weren't voting for her anyway. If someone is cruising sites with this disinfo they were voting for Trump anyway
     
  15. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    What did they win?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,934
    Likes Received:
    41,492
     
    KingCheetah, RayRay10 and B-Bob like this.
  17. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,841
    [​IMG]

    ...A lifetime subscription to PARLER!
     
    KingCheetah and RayRay10 like this.
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2002
    Messages:
    59,079
    Likes Received:
    52,748
    How did he get a Tesla flamethrower?
     
    RayRay10 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now