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Even if Biden wins, Dems, media — and all of us — have a lot to answer for, and to fix

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Invisible Fan, Nov 5, 2020.

  1. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    A lot I agree with the philly op/ed.

    It's always been a long march folks. Internet has conditioned America towards instant gratification and it aint happenin. Right now Americans are hoping to ram in everything for 2 years, then play defense. Bananas...

    Even if Biden wins, Dems, media — and all of us — have a lot to answer for, and to fix
    ...
    In the end, the 2020 contest showed that for most of us — no matter where you fall on the great political divide — the last four years have been based on magical, and fallacious thinking. Neither the Resistance left nor the Trumpist right won the war of ideas and crushed the other side or somehow brought it to its senses — because they never would.

    Yes, revulsion over a president’s lies and lack of a moral character energized millions of voters, especially among college-educated women in suburbs outside Phoenix or Atlanta or Milwaukee or Philadelphia, which is what brought Biden to the brink of victory. Pennsylvania’s Montgomery County, the affluent suburb that’s been considered an American bellwether since the Reagan years, saw Biden claim 47,000 more votes than backed Clinton when she won the county just west of Philadelphia in 2016 — which is also more votes than Trump’s statewide margin that year.

    And yet Biden needed every one of those votes because Trump also increased his vote tally in Montco, as he did in Pennsylvania, as he did in the nation. The bottom line is that close to 75 million Americans aren’t revulsed by Donald Trump, but they remain highly revulsed by the people who hate him — those smug elite “pointy-headed” liberals in the media or academia or Hollywood looking down on Trump ... and, thus, on them.

    Which raises an important point: How are we ever going to fix America when the people we pay the big bucks to understand America — the media, the pollsters, and folks who run our political parties and (normally) draft party platforms — seem determined to not have a clue about what is happening in the nation’s so-called Heartland. The 2020 race, if nothing else, exposed a lot of wrong-headed thinking about this country. For example:

    — The media and its hired pollsters misread the room ... again. In a nation that can’t agree on anything, I think we can all agree that public-opinion polling in America is fundamentally broken, even as the media and large swaths of the politically engaged public remain addicted to their increasingly useless data — at the expense of actual reporting on what Americans think.

    It’s not just that Biden underperformed the national polls showing him with a popular-vote lead in the high-single digits (and double digits in a number of reputable surveys), but many Democrats were lulled to sleep by polls showing the party on a seemingly certain track to retake the Senate. Candidates like Maine’s Sara Gideon and North Carolina’s Cal Cunningham, who led in every single poll for months, were blown out on Election Day.

    We don’t know what this happened, but I increasingly think there’s something to the notion that a swath of Trump supporters — some call them “shy,” but it seems to me they’re more angry — won’t talk to pollsters because hatred of media is so central to their political beliefs. So why are we even doing this and, to my next point, why are Democratic Party leaders failing to dig deeper to understand why they so often lose these key races?

    — Democrats need new leaders and a new approach. The Democrats not only look on the brink of failure in taking the Senate — yes, there’s a tiny pathway with two runoff elections in Georgia, but past experience suggests that trick never works — but also managed to lose House seats in a high-turnout presidential year that traditionally favors their party. Biden’s possible victory doesn’t mean that top Democrats — national chair Tom Perez, or congressional leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi — shouldn’t be held accountable for a collapse that will make it impossible to implement their party’s policy agenda.

    Here’s the thing: Voters in a state after state showed a preference for progressive policy ideas, be it legalizing mar1juana in New Jersey, a $15 minimum wage in Trump-supporting Florida, or same-sex marriage in Nevada. Yet the preference of party leaders for bland centrist candidates, in an era when Trump has shown that American voters are more willing to be amused to death, isn’t yielding gains in the legislatures where most policies are set. The reasons for this are complicated — the Democrats' faith in social-distance campaigning may have been a unique 2020 problem — but there will be gridlock until something changes.



    — Nobody, not Democrats or Republicans or the media, understands America’s Hispanic/Latinx vote. The largest non-white segment of the American electorate are the folks that white progressives like me have been — perhaps stupidly, this piece in Vox argues — calling Latinx, or who traditionally have been known as Hispanics. Yet neither the media nor either Democrats or Republicans seem to have much of a clue about them, and not just what to call them.

    The sad history of both the media and white Democrats to view such a diverse voting block — which ranges from Cubans who fled Communism to Mexicans who fled poverty to Texans who’ve been in America for generations — as a monolith led to a surprise when Trump over-performed with these voters. The Democrats need to calibrate their ideas to account for these differences and maybe center their pitch on economics more than immigration. But I also can’t help but wonder that if Republicans had a president who actually wooed all Hispanic voters instead of insulting some, we’d be talking about Trump’s second term right now.


    And yet the biggest problem with the 2020 election is that America probably took a step backward on its biggest mountain to climb: Anger and disunity that leads to gridlock in Washington and the threat of violence in our streets. The definition of insanity is doing the same things again and again and expecting different results, right?

    It’s time for the nation — both its pundits and its everyday people — to understand that our new national fault line, which in 2020 was the biggest determinant in who voted for Trump or Biden, is higher education: Who has access to it, who doesn’t and why. As long as nearly half the nation is going broke on the paper chase of a job credential called a college diploma, and the other half is shut out (and ridiculed) of a rigged system that pretends it’s a meritocracy, America will remain angry and resentful. And yet we’re barely talking about the solutions — massive public support for universal young-adult education that includes free community college and non-classroom alternatives, or a “gap year” of mandatory civilian service.

    Oh well ... maybe in 2024, if we don’t all kill each other before then.​
     
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  2. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

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    The problem with lumping all Latinos in the same category is not all Latinos are the same. You have predominantly Catholic or Christian belief systems the closer you get to Mexico, but trust me when I say that a Mexican-American does not necessarily identify with a Guatemalan, or someone from El Salvador, or Honduras, or a Chilean, or Venezuelan, or a Latino from Cuba or the Dominican, just like you wouldn't lump Haitians with people from Quebec because their citizens mostly speak French.
     
  3. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    Yes—the corpses running the party are out of touch. They woulda lost even with someone like trump having one of the largest failures of all time/****ing up a pandemic.

    the democratic message is crap. Fracking is not the hills to die on and use the right strategy. Play smart. One poster said that republicans are all 3s and layups they don’t mess around they target their messsge and make their supporters foam at the mouth
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Again, I think you have to count all the votes and properly weight all the exit polls before you try to measure what went wrong here

    The information on demographic groups (other than men favoring Trump and women Biden) is probably not broad enough yet to do all kinds of microanalysis (though for cubans in miami the data is probably good enough)
     
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  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    White people SMH.
     
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  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    It's a lot like the "Asian vote"...plus more vitriol and stigmatization.
     
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  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Good op/ed and agree with a lot of it. The one thing I will note is that last two Democrat Presidents have essentially been centrist. While Obama was thought of as a progressive in 2008 his platform was actually very vague and it was more a matter of perception. Also the idea that a progressive would've done better we need to remember that one of the most effective attack lines against Biden was that he either was one himself or a stooge for "Socialists" That likely appears to have been a factor in losing FL as not just Cubans but Colombian and Venezualan Americans also voted against Biden out of fear of "Socialism". The key thing I would take from that is "bland" is the bigger factor than "centrist".

    I also don't fully agree that higher education is a fault line. Trump did win a fair amount of college educated men and women in the last election and I think that will be the case here too.

    That said fully agree that the perception of the Blue Tsunami was problematic. There was plenty of evidence that this thing was going to be close and one reason why I had been saying for months that no one should be comfortable with this election.
     
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  8. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    I though the lines in the article that references resentment regarding college degrees and the cost for going that route with the debt incurred if you’re not born with rich parents was excellent.
     
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  9. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    The problem with Biden and Clinton as "centrists" is not necessarily that they were centrists it's that they had no real platform, convictions, and tried to win with platitudes. Biden was easily tripped up when asked about more progressing policies because they couldn't commit one way or the other. If Biden goes on to win it will be because he's running against a doofus, had social unrest, and a pandemic break in his favor...and it's TIGHT. In literally any other year he would get destroyed.

    You can be a centrist and have a backbone.
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Midwesterns aren't repulsed by detention centers. As a matter of they support them. Not hard to understand when you understand the issue is jobs, not brown people hatred.

    Alot of Americans aren't college educated and need those jobs
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Middle class whites don't care about Black Lives Matter either. A pollster in their face might compel them to say whats politically correct
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    We could have worked on this but we mistakenly blamed last go round on Russkies
     
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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    wrong,

    it is the case that many GOPers were willing to ignore the bad actor Russia, case in point Moscow Mitch
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Whatever

    This entire campaign ive said the same thing about these same voters.

    Most importantly, they support detention centers. Democrats problem win or lose will always be their vacuum
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    On Hispanic vote, first they don't vote. Other than that they are way more diverse than blacks. Trump has been especially racist and they still vote no where as block for Democrats like blacks and one idiot Republican isn't going to change that

    HISPANICS OWN BUSINESSES, BLACKS DON'T

    A fundamental difference

    A separate but but obviously related issue, they are doing better economically
     
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    They don't have Hispanic Lives Matter
     
  17. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Have you thought for a second that half of America doesn't give a **** about the pandemic and think its overblown? OR you ever thought 95% of white/hispanic America doesn't **** about BLM either? Everyone wants to points fingers at people but people don't ever sit back and think that maybe half the country just likes trump cuz he's a dictator and they're okay with it? People keep thinking that America has this moral backbone and that the problem was with Biden. Cubans/colombians/argentinas don't give a **** about cages or the border wall or Mexicans in general. They care about business and taxes.

    Has anyone ever thought ALL the polling (about covid/blm/trump/approval ratings) is complete bullshit and half of America is just bitter and wants a dictator? Obviously not because that wouldn't fit in the narrative for most people. Houston had more people vote for GOP this year than in 2016 even though the GOP tried EVERY tactic to suppress the vote.

    America isn't as 'woke' as people think. Accept it and open your eyes. The problem with the Dems is that platform is complete bullshit. Nobody gives a **** about unity/racism/environment. These are not what you run a platform on.
     
    #17 astros123, Nov 5, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    ^ Many white people even across the aisle have accepted the bigger concepts in the BLM movement post George Floyd, a good 60% imo. Diversity in the protests indicate this.

    What polls fail to capture is what degree that support will lead to in other policy changes such as
    • Defunding the police - constantly mislabeled and no one can agree what is or to what scope it can be played out
    • Reparations - philosophically dubious and grinds certain people on a carnal level
    • Police reform by "deprofiling blacks" - people want police to not be bullies for everyone and are still afraid of "thugs" and "looters" when signaled with the phrase "law and order"
    • Prison reform - unlikely after Trump's crack at it but second best change candidate after some Congressional stab at police reform
    Passions are still pretty intense to the point where every police brutality incident is a powderkeg.

    It's an issue that I'd rather all sides come together to deal with and reconcile but that's wishful thinking right now.

    That isn't to say there aren't answers towards better racial equality. There are plenty but the phrasing and messaging to make it a political winner is sorely lacking.
     
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  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    You're making the same mistake as the pollsters because you saw some white people marching. Its not a big issue to as many white people as you think.
     
  20. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    I generally agree that this is where half the American public is and that's my point. Biden's lack of substance was a problem. If he was really such a centrist he could still have some sort of plan and speak to what he will actually do in office beyond not be Trump.

    Biden ran as a centrist and tried to thread the needle of public opinion. I'm not saying he would have won more conservative votes by being progressive but he didn't win much of any conservative votes by speaking in platitudes and dodging questions about progressive ideals. I don't think Biden really cares about BLM. So, progressives see he's not behind any real change and conservatives assume that he is because he's not explicitly rebuking these ideals like Trump. He just led conservatives to assume he was an AOC in disguise and alienated progressives.

    The best, most consistent, path to victory is moderate ideals that many agree on, that is centrist. But, you can also win by energizing your partisan base and the rest of your party will just fall in line like puppets. That's exactly what Trump did in 2016. "Good" Republicans all talk about how much they don't like Trump but they elected him and would do the same for any one with that red R next to their name. Just hit a couple basic guidelines like cut taxes or talk gun rights.

    I'm saying there are paths to victory for any party, you just have to actually pick one.
     
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