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If Harden demanded Westbrook stay, which one of the following would you agree with?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by jevjnd, Oct 19, 2020.

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What would you do?

  1. I’d trade Harden. It might not be worth it to keep Westbrook.

    45.5%
  2. We owe Harden, listen to him.

    43.8%
  3. Take the second pick and other, non-core, players from Golden State. then draft Killian Hayes.

    3.3%
  4. Same as above, but take Lamelo Ball.

    5.0%
  5. Take the pick and get someone else with the second pick.

    2.5%
  1. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    I feel we owe it to him to make sure that he’s in a good situation, but I’m not sure how to do that with the insistence of keeping Westbrook on the roster. We saw a Miami turn things around, but I’m not sure how we could do the same without Morey. I really did trust him. That said, we’re not doing Harden any favors by caving to him, are we? What I don’t like is the idea of trading Westbrook first or by losing further value in terms of picks or plus players.
     
  2. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    If we stay the course, will Harden leave soon anyway? If the rumor is true, he already mentioned leaving if Westbrook is gone. What options does that leave us with? Why not take a good talent, like Hayes, now and go from there?
     
  3. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    He wouldn’t have spent into tax either. We needed him to sell to Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. Or some other tech billionaire.
     
    jevjnd likes this.
  4. mightybosstone

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    I was thinking more like broader poll answers like "Trade Harden for picks and prospects to rebuild" or "Trade Harden for another star, veterans to try and contend." Like I'm not even going to attempt to think of all the specific poll answers you could come up with if you were going to list possible trade partners, but there's a lot. You basically narrowed the scope of your poll to just trading for a single player based on your own opinion of a particular draft prospect.

    Also, I'm not gonna lie, but I've never heard of Killian Hayes. But I did a quick Google search of mock drafts and didn't see him listed higher than the 7th overall pick on any of them. Are you actually Killian Hayes or related to him in any way? Because you seem super behind this whole "trade Harden for some French prospect most fans haven't heard of" plan.
     
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  5. Dankstronaut

    Dankstronaut Way, way out here.
    Supporting Member

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    I have never understood the “I don’t know what I’m talking about BUT...” response.

    Like it’s cool. The NBA draft is for nerds only. Bragging about ignorance just never plays.
     
  6. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    That’s what the last choice was supposed to be. I apologize for my poor wording. I hadn’t heard of him till I heard Kevin O’Connor mention him as his top pick for this draft. I then started looking into Hayes and found that O’Connor may have been right. Hayes seems generational in his offensive arsenal.

    https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

    PLUSES
    • Playmaking is his best skill. He can whip passes off the dribble with accuracy and hit cutters or rollers with precision.
    • Creative pick-and-roll facilitator. Despite his weak right hand, he gets where he wants and knows how to manipulate defenses to create passing angles and openings to score.
    • Fluid ball handler with the size to outmuscle smaller guards.
    • Excellent touch with his left hand finishing difficult floaters and runners, often after initiating contact.
    • Displays major potential as an off-the-dribble 3-point shooter with Hardenesque moves. Added a stepback and sidestep 3 to his arsenal and uses hesitations to get into pull-ups.
    • His catch-and-shoot shooting numbers are concerning, but he has smooth form, a soft touch inside, and a free throw percentage over 80—all of which suggest he’ll figure it out.
    • Tall, with a strong frame and long arms, making him a projectably versatile defender against guards and wings.
    • Active off-ball menace who could develop into a disruptive defensive helper.
    MINUSES
    • Left-hand dominant: He might as well tie his right hand behind his back considering how little he uses it—there are some passes he can’t make since he relies on his left hand so much.
    • Limited athlete who lacks burst and bounce, which hinders his finishing ability, especially since he rarely uses his right hand.
    • Lacks an advanced handle. Picks up his dribble too often, which gets him into trouble. He’s shifty but doesn’t create a ton of separation and doesn’t string together advanced moves to break down defenses.
    • Experiences lapses on defense, missing rotations and falling out of his on-ball stance.
    • He needs to be more vocal as a lead guard to take better command of the team.
     
  7. lakersuck2

    lakersuck2 Member

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    If I'm trading Harden for a draft pick, and no I don't really support that either way, I'm not doing it in what's long been seen as the weakest draft in a very very long time. No matter how bad a draft is we find a way to hype ourselves when it gets close to draft day but early on many experts were saying that the top tier talent in this draft is 2013 levels. No one is a sure thing. If I had to trade Harden for a rookie I'd at least wait for someone like Emoni Bates, someone who feels special.

    Also to anyone still defending Westbrook, I implore you to look at your own post history and see what you were saying about him in 2017. Yes, it worked for a while before the shutdown but that was in the regular season against trash teams. The "All Heart no Brain" type of play doesn't and will never work in the playoffs. All he knows how to do is force things leading to bricks and turnovers over and over again.
     
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  8. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I think it's increasingly clear that Harden is not really the reason we have Westbrick. It is/was Tilman. I'm sure Harden supported the move and/or gave it his stamp of approval, but I doubt he feels remotely so attached to Westbrook as to have demanded the trade or demanded he stays now.

    Also, these are oddly specific options, and I don't really agree with any of them. Are you suggesting these are the only five possibilities? I don't even know what some of them refer to, but maybe I'm just out of the loop right now.
     
  9. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    I hope that’s true. He’s been one of the best in the history of the franchise. Hakeem got his rings and a part of me wants to see Harden get his, too; even if it’s somewhere else.
     
  10. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    I wish rockets have less fickle fans, with more heart, patience, appreciation and understanding...
     
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  11. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    Same question people have been asking and answering the last two days. So instead of reading through threads to get your answer you create a thread?
     
  12. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    Lebron had real help in 2016. If Harden had that type of help he probably could get there. Realistically to win currently we need to be following the old Thunder(when they had westbrook, harden, durant, Ibaka) or 2019 Raptors models.
     
  13. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    Well, there certainly are arguments to other factors. LeBron had Kyrie and Kevin, who are great players, but he also played in the East. Harden has had Dwight, CP3, Westbrook, and couldn't get it done. I realize that he had to to up against Golden State, but regardless, Harden and the Rockets couldn't get over the hump.

    Now, there's not enough assets to 'become' an early 2010s Thunder team or a 2019 Raptors team. If Harden was 22-23, we could weather a few years and wait out Westbrook's contract. But Harden ain't getting any younger and his value won't suddenly be better next year, than it is right now.

    I'm a big Harden fan, but if it's either "me and Westbrook" or "fk y'all if y'all trade Westbrook," then I start taking phone calls on Harden, trade Westbrook for pennies on the dollar, and start the rebuilding process.
     
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  14. jevjnd

    jevjnd Contributing Member

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    Read those threads and wanted more opinions on this specific pick.
     
  15. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Harden cost us our future just so he could have his friend on the team. He can hit the bricks.
     
  16. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    The funny thing is that everyone's reaction to our playoff loss was to trade Westbrook ASAP, but his market value is pretty damn low with his contract/age/shooting woes. Not to mention he was hurt/out of rhythm most of the playoffs anyways.

    In a way, I think we're going to get more out of him (for about 2 years or so) than anything we'll get back for him. The issue is more our cap/roster flexibility -- as dropping him for a shorter contract would be the "smart" long-term move. Another problem is obviously Harden, who's in his prime and has his best friend on the team...not to mention if we take a step back talent-wise to increase flexibility, that's also not helping Harden in the short-term, as he's 31.

    I think the best move would be to do what we did after our '15-'16 debacle season (but via trade instead of FA), and add a new coach, alter our scheme, and try to add 2-3 new pieces to our rotation. Hope that chemistry clicks and that we can overachieve a bit, not unlike Miami did this year.

    We basically need:
    - A Serge Ibaka/Myles Turner type
    - A knockdown shooter or two
    - Another 6'10"ish big

    So we can still play uptempo and space the floor for Harden/Russ, without completely ignoring the paint. Our perimeter defense was overall very good down the stretch, and having someone halfway decent at protecting the rim could turn the tides for us quite a bit. Obviously we don't have much to trade, but I think Covington, EG and House should be shopped, and hope that someone bites.
     
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  17. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    Not all on the same team though. Dwight didn't have the right mindset until he made it to the Lakers for some reason. It's not as black and white and clear cut like you make it seem. Harden is under contract even if he were to demand a trade. He still has to wait on us....We will find out soon enough. When Harden's extension comes up again. If what is being said is true, he probably won't sign a extension until he knows Westbrook will get one. In that case I fully expect Tilman to trade him in order to not lose him for nothing.
     
  18. mightybosstone

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    How am I "bragging about ignorance?" Also, I don't mind guys who are super into the draft. Some people love college/international basketball and that influx of young talent into the NBA, and the draft is a big deal for them. I'm not that guy, but that's OK—I'm not going to knock them for that. We're all "nerdy" about something.

    My constructive criticism had nothing to do with the guy's interest in the draft or even that he was so high on this one player I'd never heard of. It was more that the poll was so focused on that one draft prospect when there are so many different options out there if they decide to trade Harden.
     
  19. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    At this point, Harden knows its pointless to compete. He knows he is not going to win anything.

    When you're the guy on the job who is already paid the max and doing all the work and realize there is no benefit in trying harder, of course you are going to watch the coach who isn't going to push you. And of course you're going to want your boi at your side even if he is absolutely useless on the job. If Westbrook was taking a nickel out of Hardens pocket, Harden wouldn't think twice about dumping him on the curb, just like he did with CP3.

    Your boy Harden has officially quit. Trade his ass and strip this team.
     
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Would blow it completely up, get what you can for Westbrook and Harden and rebuild.

    DD
     
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