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US General Won't be the "Fall Guy" for failure in Iraq

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    When Robert Novak is reporting comments made by US generals that are extremely critical of a sitting Republican president something is very, very wrong. Even conservatives who supported the invasion of Iraq have to be really concerned by the incompetence of the Bush Administration.



    Generals weary of low troop levels

    April 8, 2004

    BY ROBERT NOVAK SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST


    The New York Times Book Review of last Sunday received unusual attention in the Pentagon's corridors this week. The review of In the Company of Soldiers by Washington Post war correspondent Rick Atkinson reveals the ridiculously low estimate made by the Pentagon's civilian leadership of troops needed in Iraq. Those words echoed eerily amid news of open fighting in Baghdad between U.S. troops and Shiite militia.



    In the afterword following his brilliant account of the actual war, Atkinson wrote: ''Pentagon planners in early May had predicted that U.S. troop levels would be down to 30,000 by late summer [of 2003].'' That was the first time that prediction had been seen in print by startled readers at the Defense Department. The existing 125,000 troop level (currently at 135,000 because of replacements) is considered inadequate by the generals. Gen. John Abizaid, the regional commander-in-chief, has made clear he will ask for more troops if his subordinate commanders need them.

    But Afghanistan also needs more troops. So where will they come from? Nobody knows, and that connotes an overcommitment by the United States and a miscalculation at the Defense Department. The uniformed military does not speak out publicly, but the generals are outraged. A former national security official considers the relationship at the Pentagon between civilians and the military as worse than at any time in his long career.

    At the heart of this debate is the original belief by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's team that conquering U.S. troops would be welcomed by open arms in Iraq. In this highly political season, Democrats are replaying the debate of a year ago. Gen. Eric Shinseki, then about to leave as the Army's chief of staff, said ''several hundred thousand soldiers'' could be needed in Iraq. ''Way off the mark,'' retorted Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.

    Adhering to the principle of civilian control of the military and unvarying obedience to orders, the generals have not publicly expressed their opinion that Shinseki was much closer to the truth than Wolfowitz. However, Abizaid made clear Monday that he was not going to be the fall guy if conditions in Iraq further deteriorate. If commanders want more troops to fulfill their mission, he will ask for them. That would leave Rumsfeld with no choice. The secretary announced on Tuesday that the generals ''will get what they ask.''

    The problem of where to find these troops is not easily solved. There are simply no large units available and suitable for assignment. The 3rd Infantry Division was sent home early, but is now in the midst of Rumsfeld's ''transformation'' (from three brigades to five) and so is not ready to be inserted into combat. National Guard brigades could be activated, but the need for full training before going to war means they cannot help resolve the present crisis.

    Democrats have demanded the use of foreign troops, but countries that previously refused to help without a U.N. mandate have not changed their minds. Britain announced Tuesday it was replacing an armored brigade, keeping its contribution at the present level of 8,700 troops but not adding any. Spain's new leftist government wants out. That leaves only Turkey willing to help, but the United States has ruled that out in the face of fierce Kurdish opposition.

    Although underestimating troop needs in a less political environment would mean fixing the blame at the Pentagon, every issue today becomes a test of party loyalty. Senators Richard Lugar and Chuck Hagel, the top two Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, are assailed by the White House for offering constructive criticism. With Sen. Edward M. Kennedy setting the Democratic line by saying that ''Iraq is George Bush's Vietnam,'' sensible dialogue is impossible.

    While Democrats roar, the generals are silent -- in public. Many confide that they will not cast their normal Republican votes on Nov. 2. They cannot bring themselves to vote for John Kerry, who has been a consistent Senate vote against the military. But they say they are unable to vote for Don Rumsfeld's boss, and so will not vote at all.
     
    #1 gifford1967, Apr 9, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2004
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    be interesting to see how those who pilloried novak over the palme affair spin this column of his. i suppose they will simply extoll his evenhandedness and excellent contact among the military since this column attacks Bush.
     
  3. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    When your own natural allies turn on you isn't it indicative of something? Intelligent people can note this and at the same time disagree with Novak's positions generally and his conduct in the Plame affair specifically.
     
  4. basso

    basso Member
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    wow, that's awfully nuanced of you...
     
  5. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    I don't get why Abizaid and other generals see what is going on now, and if the guys on the ground in command don't think they need more troops, Abizaid and the other generals just replace those guys. The reports I've seen indicate the foot soldiers want more boots on the ground. Where is this getting lost?
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

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    I think it's getting lost in politics. It would look like the Bush admin was wrong in their initial planning, in what they told congress and the nation they needed to do the job. So rather than just say things have taken unexpected turns, or that we have a real opportunity to make progress if we put more troops on the ground, they try and make it seem like we don't need more troops.

    Asking for more troops could increase second guessing on what kind of international support we need, what kind of price this whole thing will cost in money as well as lives.
     
  7. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    At this point if we are unable to get other countries to help AND we insist on being charge of everything, the only way we'll have enough boots on the ground to do this right is through the draft. Too many commitments otherwise.


    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/global-deployments.htm

    Where are the Legions? [SPQR]
    Global Deployments of US Forces



    The forces of the United States military are located in nearly 130 countries around the world performing a variety of duties from combat operations, to peacekeeping, to training with foreign militaries. Some of these deployments have existed for nearly 50 years, as in Japan, Germany, and South Korea, while other deployments have more recent origins such as the current occupation of Iraq.

    As of early February 2004, there are some 250,000 soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and Coast Guardsmen deployed in support of combat, peacekeeping, and deterrence operations. This figure does not include those forces normally present in Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom or Japan unless bases at those locations are actively supporting a combat operation. Furthermore, tours of duty in these locations are routine and not considered hardship tours. If one were to include these forces the number of deployed troops worldwide would be around 350,000.

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    A bit of relevant analysis:
    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0409/p02s01-woiq.html

    US options in dealing with a widening war

    Experts' suggestions range from a quick withdrawal to increasing troop levels and repairing international coalition.

    By Brad Knickerbocker | Staff writer

    The US-led effort in Iraq has reached its most critical point since the invasion began just over a year ago.
    The fierce fighting this week between major religious factions and American soldiers could be more critical to the eventual outcome than even the largely-symbolic fall of Baghdad and the capture of Saddam Hussein.

    Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld calls it "a test of will." But it's also a test of US military preparedness and capability, coalition unity, reconstruction and nation-building efforts, and the Bush administration's exit strategy (starting with the planned handover of sovereignty to an Iraqi government 10 weeks from now).

    Other factors are even more unclear. The strength and motives of opposing factions in Iraq, and the involvement of other countries - principally Iran - in resisting the US administration, are difficult to gauge, as is US public opinion as the nation moves towards its first wartime presidential election in a generation.

    What are the Bush administration's options?

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    "Like Vietnam, it's not that it was not possible to be successful, but the question is whether or not we are willing to pay the price," says Colonel Gardiner. "The price for Iraq has just gone up."
     
    #7 Woofer, Apr 9, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2004
  8. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    So are you planning on attacking Novak now that he is going against Bush?
     
  9. Sishir Chang

    Sishir Chang Member

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    These are the type of people who need to look at this as a vote for divided government because even with a Kerry victory there still will be a Repub. congress that will resist attempts to cut the military.
     
  10. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    Upon reflection, the General does not have to worry. The Bushies never fire anyone for incompetence - check Condi Rice/FBI and CIA chiefs. They only fire someone who is not a loyal yes man who does not toe the party line.
     

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