Finally someone with some perspective. Yao has never been able to put up more than a couple of weeks of dominate play in his career. And people just ASSUME that he's just going to one day dominate the league. Well, he's going on his third year folks. And look at this year. He played really average for the first half of the year, picked it up somewhat after the all star break. He had two really good weeks and has now completely faded down the stretch for the second straight year. Surrounding Yao with role players counts on the fact that Yao would demand immediate double teams - which hasn't happened much recently if you haven't noticed. He has been consistently muscled in the paint. And that little flip shot he tried tonight that Carmelo spiked off the backboard back to half court has to be the most pathetic thing I've seen all year. 7'5 with a 6'9 guy guarding you and you try little flip shots? Sorry to have interjected the real world into your dreams. I'll let you continue to choose the blue pill.
Gater, I would argue that Steve IS Houston's best basketball player. In fact, if it were not for Steve, this team probably would not be going to the playoffs. If it were not for Steve, the Rox would have lost this game tonight and would be in a dog fight just to make the postseason. Yao did squat. So, Steve stepped up and led us to the playoffs. I can't speak for all Steve fans, but I personally have always admired players that would dig down deep and find a way to compete - regardless. Magic once said that he feared Bird because he would do whatever it took to get his team a win - score, rebound, cheat... whatever. Steve may make mistakes, but he always finds a way to compete. Yao on the on the other hand can COMPLETELY be taken out of a game. Okay, Yao, you're having a rough shooting night. Can you grab a friggin rebound? And how about mixing in a blocked shot or two? He will just stand around with that dumb look on his face and let people push him around and wait for the refs to bail him out. I know a lot of people are enamored with his skills, but the NBA is not a skills test, it's competition. It's about desire, drive, and determination. Any superstar that got his shot blocked like Yao did last night would have immediately asserted himself to put his imprint on that game just to re-establish that he IS a dominate player. Yao just went back down court and did nothing. NOTHING. That is what infuriates me about the guy. Yao had good games against Shaq so The Diesel took it personally. He came out last game and proved to Yao, the Rox, and the world that he could shut Yao down. And you have heard lots less talk of Yao passing him up every since. Yes, sometimes you do have to establish yourself in this league - with your teammates, opponents, and the refs. If Yao's teammates respected him more and had faith that he would take over games, they would get the ball into his hands. What you saw last night was Steve not having any faith that Yao was going to get anything done after how badly we played in the first quarter. So he put the team on his back and carried them to a win. He has faults, but he cares, and he absolutely will find a way to compete. Yao will score and that's it. And if his scoring is off, you may as well play Padgett cause you're not going to get anything from him. So there you have it from a Steve fan why we (or at least I) think the Rox would be hurting themselves by trading SF.
As great as Steve played last night, anything short of him putting up 33 points and 11 assists from this point to the end of the playoffs would not be enough to make me forget the 78 games prior.
Will, haven't heard from you in a long time. Like the thread. Your right about Francis. His games are just spurts. He did that against Denver, but watch him choke against Sonics. Sell high, get a quality PG and some extra scrappy players....
For once, I agree with you about this post totally. I know I am a Yao fan ( not YOF) and I think Steve Franicis has huge flaw in his skills and mindset that keep him from being a real super PG. But nobody can question his heart on the court. I mean when he has no confidence making the jumper, he hustle his *ss off fighting for offense rebound, when he is basically lit up or even schooled by opponent PG, but at least you can see he is trying his best to chase and defend them. SF has bad bad games all year around, but I don't think people will argue he competes in every game. But what were that for Yao's previous 3 games? When his jumpers were not falling, he disappeared. No offense and defense rebounding, leave Camby wideopen all night long, no block shots and take facial from Rodney freaking White. I mean, when your shots no falling, you have to find another way to compete, you have to play hustle D, grab rebs and block shots. I don't know what was this guy thinking? Inexperienced or no heart? I don't know. But Juugie, you have to agree Yao and SF's game don't fit each other. SF need a more moblie Center and Yao need a better PG knows how to setup. I know you want to get rid of Yao and build around SF, but you have to understand in 3 years SF will turn to his 30s, his athleticism, which I think is his biggest asset, will fade. I don't see how he and Rox can win a title in 3 years without an outstanding inside presence.
The problem with stock trading is that when your stock is high, you are tempted to keep it. When your stock is low, you are tempted to sell it.
Hell No, Its not Yao-ish. The stats aren't everything, Steve put up these big numbers when his team needed him the most. Yao did nothing all game but casue probelms for the Rockets all night. Steve took the game over like a real star and like the Franchise that he is. Yao is overrated and will never lead anyone anywhere.
Agreed. This is why people want to trade Steve, not cut him. This statement is also true: "if it were not for Yao, this team probably would not be in the playoffs." Steve had a spectacular game and I'm thrilled for him. I'm thrilled for all of us. But for you to isolate this game and ignore the other 78 is absurd. There were many, many, many games that you could make this assesment: "Steve did squat. So Yao stepped up and . . ." Juugie, let's say we tallied up the times that: 1) Yao had a bad game and Steve had a great game (like last night) 2) Steve had a bad game and Yao had a great game Frankly, I don't have the time this morning to go through all the box scores and prove this with statistics. But I'll wager that #2) happened a heck of a lot more than #1). Agreed. I love this about Steve. It's the reason I cheered like mad when we got him five years ago, it's the same reason I've cheered for him since. You gotta love the guy's heart. Juugie, in a weird way, I respected that you've had the guts to post so many negative comments about Yao. I'm a Rockets Fan first (have been since '91 when I started watching basketball), a Yao fan second, but, that being said, Yao is my favorite player in the league. My point is that even though I'm a Yao fan, I appreciated you bringing a different perspective into the mix. Your posts were often too extreme, but I could understand the spirit . . . if you'll allow me to paraphrase, your contention seems to be "Yao's great and all, but he's not good enough to build a team around." Remove all the ad hominum attacks, and your argument is actually reasonable. That being said . . . this above quote really makes me question your agenda. "Yao will just stand around with that dumb look on his face . . ."? That's just cruel. Yes, we all wish that Yao played each game with fire. I'm also frustrated when he's too passive. You're not alone. But "dumb look on his face"? Before I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm truly puzzled by your venom. Not really. Based on one game, and a few other cherry-picked examples, you argued that the Rockets wouldn't succeede without Steve. Again, though, no one is saying that the Rockets should just chuck Francis in the garbage, a la Eddie Griffin. That would be bad. We all know he has breathtaking talents, we know he has heart. But we want to barter thsoe talents for a player who better complements this team. No, the Rockets are not ready to win with Yao and a bunch of scrubs. You're right - he's no Hakeem. (And, by the way, we're just as unable to win with Francis and a bunch of scrubs. He's no Jordan.) But I bet you dollars to donuts that he IS ready to win with a rock solid point guard or another legitimate scorer (eg Ray Allen). Francis is a good guy. He's a good player. He's not untradable.
Bingo. Juugie, if you're not going to show up the 80% of the time when Francis stinks, please don't show up the 20% of the time that he does.
Feature Franchise in playoff games like trade bait at the deadline. Forget team play for now. Iso Iso Iso. Go Franchise! Let's see you score 50.
Wow. Right after Steve played his heart out and led us back from a big defecit to clinch a playoff spot for the first time in years, another trade Francis thread surfaces. Heck, I should have know better.
You're right. That was a little mean. I in know way think we should just ship Yao out. For the right deal I would trade him just like I would anyone on the team. I actually think that Yao and SF DO complement each other in the sense that neither of them is good enough to carry a team to a title. But if you find a way to harness Yao's strengths and SF's strengths, you can build a team that could get there. Make is so when Yao has it going, you ride him, when Steve has it going, you ride him. I think they take pressure off each other. I agree that we need to bring in a primary ball handler. I also think that we should allow Yao to play more 15 to 18 feet away so we play to his strengths. I think that we have a special player in Yao, just not the dominant low post beast that people hope he will turn into. Let him use his shooting touch and passing ability without forcing him to play in the post all the time. And allow Steve to use his abilities as well. The Rockets are not a good enough team to have an all-star play with one hand behind his back. The Lakers may be because they have four future hall of famers so they can afford to have a Kobe or Shaq playing only half effectively. The Rockets have to have all of their cylinders firing to make some noise - that means Yao AND Steve.
Deuce, If the Rockets traded for a LeBron type player next year and told Yao that they just want him to be a rebounder and shotblocker and allow LeBron to do most of the scoring, how could you blame Yao for how the team does? They would have taken away half his game and given the reigns to someone else. And the other person would bear the burden of making the team better. Well, that's what Steve went through this year. Also, this wasn't just any game. This was the biggest game of the year. Gut check time. And he carried the team. No one can ever say he hasn't led a team to the playoffs again - because he almost single handedly saved the Rockets' season. If they lost last night, chances are they miss theplayoffs. Give the guy some credit.
Rasselas, great post. I don't usually have a problem with Juugie's posts either (not that he cares!), but at this point, it seems like he's in a grudge match with a lot of other posters and it's not really about Yao. Yao goes through these slumps often enough that few on this board don't honestly think its not due to fatigue. Everyone's happy for Steve and for the Rockets too after last night. But one game doesn't erase an entire season of watching two great but uncomplimentary players play together. The Rockets have to make a choice. This thread comes at a pretty "disloyal" time considering what Steve just did for the franchise, but this topic is going to come up eventually unless something spectactular happens in the playoffs.
This is another classic lack-of-perspective line that has been floating on this forum lately and I will attempt to ground it simplistically. The Cato we see now is still the Cato that sucked 3 years back. HE HAS NOT FREAKING CHANGED - he is just the prime benefactor of the emergence of Yao on this team. This fact does not erase what he is and the money he is now making. No player of his limited abilityand IQ (Center oder nitch) should command salary NO higher than $2M per annum...... QED.
Playoffs Baby!!!!! Come on guys, its been a long, long, 4 years, enjoy yourselves. Whether you like SF or not, the guy stepped up HUGE in the biggest game of the season. And whether you like him or not, nothing can happen until trades can start thi summer. But in the meantime, support the Rockets. I'm still smiling from lastnight, I think I may have been smiling in my sleep. Go Rockets!!
sell Steve, are you crazy? Do you see that Steve is already a good PG, not great though. He did have 10 more assists in the last two games. Did you notice that?
That's actually a good point, and I'd like to see someone address that point. I didn't watch, but it sounds like Steve had a great game. His play has been slightly better of late, and, coincidentally, Yao's hasn't been, and the team has been losing. I hate it, but it sounds like the end of the road for Steve in Houston. I hope we have a good playoff run(Second round would be amazing), but I don't know if it will really change anything. The way that Steve has played this year is definitely deserving of a trade.
LOL!!! If that's true, we're in trouble! By the way, Yao is in his 2nd season and he's improved as the time has gone on. Francis has not. Don't believe me? Keep watching. We're not good enough with Francis as one of our main weapons. Sure, SF helps the team get wins, but we can do better. I'm more interested in looking long term. Not the fleeting excitement of last nights win. We need a better player along side Yao. End of story. I mean, what difference does it make if we make it to the playoffs only to get knocked out year after year? Huh? By the way, Juugie, your point about "Yao can't carry a team" shouldn't be predicated with "Francis is the solution." It's about getting the right players around Yao. Maybe someone else as the leader, maybe not. But Francis can't be our 2nd option. This is why I prefer a McGrady/Yao team or a Allen/Barry/Yao team compared to our Francis/Mobley/Yao team. We can't expect to win with any consistency with sloppy play, high turnovers, and bad shooting. It will catch up to us sooner or later.
