1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Question about MDA - offensive genius

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Bryant2108, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. Bryant2108

    Bryant2108 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    Everyone has called him an offensive genius. I realize what he did with the Suns back in the day, and it was definitely impressive. Don’t get me wrong, I thought he was a good coach for this team.

    However, what exactly did he do here in Houston? Not taking anything away from him as a coach, but in terms of schemes and being an offensive genius, it looks to me like all we’ve done is A) give harden the ball and spread shooters or B) give Westbrook the ball and spread shooters. He’s gone with Morey’s vision, but what has he really added? He was a good coach, but I just don’t understand these people labeling him as a genius. Our offense was extremely predictable...
     
    BigShasta likes this.
  2. HP3

    HP3 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2018
    Messages:
    22,869
    Likes Received:
    32,140
    I mean, simple doesnt mean bad. Its pragmatic We would very well have had a ring here if Cp didnt get injured. We've never lost to a team less talented than us, never. Highest offensive efficiencies during the regular season and despite what anyone else says we did have offensive success in the playoffs as well. All good offenses are going to look worse agaisnt playoff defenses.

    Westbrook killed his offense.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  3. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,467
    Likes Received:
    10,228
    Houston offensive ranks since D'antoni arrived -

    2016-17: 2nd
    2017-18: 1st
    2018-19: 2nd
    2019-20: 6th

    His playoff coaching was obviously a problem, but you can't deny the success of his offensive system in the regular season. That 18-19 year was a top 5 offensive of all time. The offense wasn't nearly as good before he arrived.
     
    KelvinCato13, Nook, topfive and 2 others like this.
  4. Bryant2108

    Bryant2108 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    1,047
    No, I understand the numbers. I’m just saying - there’s little off the ball movement, there doesn’t seem to be much play calling. He’s had the most dominant one on one player in the league on his team. That’s not a knock against him, but I feel like I could stand out there and say, give Harden the ball and spread out... nothing special with that, but I understand what the numbers say
     
  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    58,867
    Likes Received:
    36,420
    The Rockets had 3 top 20 offenses of all time in 4 seasons of Dantony

    I don't think you understand the numbers.
     
  6. harold bingo

    harold bingo Udoka Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2017
    Messages:
    3,467
    Likes Received:
    10,228
    It's a combination of things, and most of it is stuff we don't see. Figuring out what works and what doesn't, removing those bad plays from the offense, encouraging players to make the right plays, pointing things out in the huddle, going over the tape/math behind the scenes...there's no real way for anyone other than the players to know exactly what's going on with this stuff but the proof is there in the results.

    If you think any coach would've had the 1st, 2nd, 1st best offenses in the league with those rosters (all 3 top 20 all time as SamFisher pointed out) I can't really argue with that. I don't think it's true but if you do then that's your opinion.
     
    TimDuncanDonaut, hakeem94 and HP3 like this.
  7. simon_!

    simon_! Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    122
    after seeing all of dantonys rocket games, and after not consulting any data, i think his biggest flaw was not paying attention to those 50-50 games. i m not talking about when harden daggers the three over donkey or when ginobilli slaps the ball from behind, you cant coach that. i m talking about ending close games when we go into full fumble mode, consistently turn stupid or something.
    its hard to tell how much you can do about it as a coach, but i feel i never saw him do anything.
     
  8. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,973
    Likes Received:
    15,447
    Harden became the “the most dominant one on one player in the league” after MDA arrived. As with Nash, MDA developed an offense to get maximum utilization of Harden’s skills. Harden’s numbers will almost certainly dip under a different offensive system. Whether that’s good or not for the team as a whole remains to be seen.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    37,973
    Likes Received:
    15,447
    I feel this was the criticism of every coach we’ve ever had. Do the numbers show that we lost more than our fair share of those games?
     
    HP3 likes this.
  10. simon_!

    simon_! Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2016
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    122

    dont know, didnt look,
    i get that this criticism might be universal, cause people remember those games longer than boring wins and boring loses...but im not saying he lost more 50-50 games than the next coach.
    i m saying he rarely reacted. as if he let players deal with pressure themselves.
     
  11. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2016
    Messages:
    30,803
    Likes Received:
    41,420
    Only beating the best team ever...
     
  12. HardenVolumeOne

    Joined:
    May 3, 2020
    Messages:
    5,728
    Likes Received:
    5,540
    anybody can be an offense genius if they really on all time great offensive floor raisers like nash and harden. How did mike do in new york and los angeles. Not so good
     
  13. ThisIsOurCity

    ThisIsOurCity Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    59
    I think calling MDA an offensive genius is a misnomer. MDA’s offensive philosophy was cutting edge and progressive but I tribute that to MDA’s open mindedness and maverick attitude not his genius (at least from an Xs and Os standpoint).
     
    BigShasta likes this.
  14. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,558
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    You can't blame him when the team don't have enough good 3pts shooters.
     
    KelvinCato13 likes this.
  15. elmotsang

    elmotsang Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,495
    Likes Received:
    667
    He resigned finally. His thinking maybe correct, but the players do not have this kinds of qualities and the opponent teams are too strong in defence. All the bench earn very little, it is difficult to have good players. It is good to have new changes for the team. If he gets Curry, Thompson, KD
     
  16. TimDuncanDonaut

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    13,337
    Likes Received:
    31,227
    Credit goes to both player and coach. Maybe something like 80% player 20% player coach. This extends to other coaches like Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, and Pops.

    In the end, it's the player that has to play the game. Nash and Harden were/are elite.

    MDA should still get credit, he maximized guys like Lin.
     
  17. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    89,538
    Likes Received:
    43,123
    He is a regular season overperformer IMO.

    It's getting tricky in the Playoffs.

    I stand convicted that the Suns were his best team in terms of overall chemistry.

    The 2018 team was all Chris Paul and Harden and defenders.

    This not developing any youngin is very well crippling.
     
  18. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    54,127
    Likes Received:
    112,641
    The Rockets are not going to have a really different offensive system regardless of who their coach is. We will see some new wrinkles and hopefully some new adjustments but that is about it. I can see why you would say Harden's numbers would dip but I actually don't think they would even if they radically changed their system. Harden is going to have the ball in his hands. We will likely see a dip just because of age.

    The hope is that they can take what they learned with MDA and also get the benefit of a coach that is more detail oriented and add to it.
     
    Deuce likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now