1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

When Will Harden Get The Respect He Deserves For His Defense?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Reeko, Sep 5, 2020.

Page 2 of 3
  1. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,290
    Likes Received:
    143,871
    he’s been average or better since the start of the 16-17 season with his defense trending up every year to the point it is undeniably very good now

    this isn’t a 1 regular season/playoffs thing

    this defense narrative should’ve been dead and buried years ago, but it still persists

    they also look stupid when they say they can’t believe a MDA team is playing defense or “this is the 1st time I’ve seen the Rockets play defense”...Did these morons miss the 17-18 season?
     
    #21 Reeko, Sep 5, 2020
    WestendMassive, D-rock, s3ts and 1 other person like this.
  2. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,290
    Likes Received:
    143,871
    this is not the case...he still gets clowned because people want to hold onto narratives from years ago and it’s popular to be ignorant and make fun of his defense

    When they’re talking about Harden still being bad on defense, they are never just isolating it to transition D. They are making a blanket statement that he’s still a bad defender overall, so it’s supposed to be shocking when he actually makes a play defensively.
     
    #22 Reeko, Sep 5, 2020
    34to11 and D-rock like this.
  3. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,377
    Likes Received:
    1,731
    I really think in earlier seasons Harden was gauging his energy usage and didn't trust his teammates as much as he does now on the offensive end. Now that he has a more trusting mindset, literally doesn't have to exert as much energy, maybe a quick drive but can count on the dish out if need be. This all equates to bringing it on the defensive end.
     
    #23 Sanctity, Sep 5, 2020
  4. tinman

    tinman 999999999
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 1999
    Messages:
    104,178
    Likes Received:
    47,043
    Thank goodness we don’t have to face Dort again
     
    #24 tinman, Sep 5, 2020
    BamBam likes this.
  5. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,108
    Likes Received:
    29,546
    This. Because individual defense doesn't have a clear and easily understandable stat, how good a player is on defense mostly depends on perception and reputation.
     
    #25 Easy, Sep 5, 2020
  6. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,709
    Likes Received:
    9,592
    That may be true.... He'll never be equated with defense unless they get to the Finals and keep this defensive status... But you can't deny that his transition D is still disheartening to see on occasions... And that's what they seem to highlight most...
     
    #26 javal_lon, Sep 5, 2020
  7. psaman17

    psaman17 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,180
    Likes Received:
    1,908
    I think he's an A defender in the post. B off the ball. B- out on the perimeter. But when he's in foul trouble his defense drops to F-.
     
    #27 psaman17, Sep 5, 2020
    javal_lon likes this.
  8. bilaal14

    bilaal14 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    3,168
    Likes Received:
    3,118
    Honestly who cares, as long as he keeps doing it. Thats all that matters.
     
    #28 bilaal14, Sep 5, 2020
    D-rock likes this.
  9. Reeko

    Reeko Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    52,290
    Likes Received:
    143,871
    they don’t highlight his transition D the most...they just make blanket statements and believe he’s an all around bad defender

    if they thought that his transition D was the main issue, then there wouldn’t be any shock and awe when he makes a defensive play in the halfcourt

    the only time they’ve really highlighted his transition D is when he did this like 5 years ago



    all these “Harden bad defense” compilations with tons of views that people still latch onto to this day even tho they’re years out of date were primarily half court possessions where he fell asleep, got blown by, or didn’t try...however, people still want to believe this is 2016 and not 2020
     
    #29 Reeko, Sep 5, 2020
    D-rock likes this.
  10. SORF

    SORF Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Messages:
    1,334
    Likes Received:
    2,132
     
    #30 SORF, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  11. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    2,110
    It's a lost cause. That YouTube video from 2012 did untold damage.
     
    #31 bulkatron, Sep 5, 2020
    javal_lon and s3ts like this.
  12. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2001
    Messages:
    23,741
    Likes Received:
    35,359
    He just needs the trophy. Everything else he wants comes with it.
     
    #32 don grahamleone, Sep 5, 2020
    D-rock and s3ts like this.
  13. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Unfortunately defensive reputation lags with current level of defense. Hence why Move got some undeserved all defensive team awards later in his career.
     
    #33 fchowd0311, Sep 5, 2020
  14. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,232
     
    #34 D-rock, Sep 6, 2020
    Reeko, Hakeemtheking and s3ts like this.
  15. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    75,262
    Likes Received:
    124,518
    "Harden is a bad defender" helps him with coaches IMO. Players and Coaches test him in the post and on the perimeter all the time thinking it's easy money, and Harden comes up big defensively when he is tested and when it matters.

    I really like James Harden, but I'm also on record saying I don't trust him. I trust his winning time defense though.

    Time and time again, Harden has locked down with the game on the line. If Harden could knock down shots with the game on the line that would be great.
     
    #35 DreamShook, Sep 6, 2020
  16. s3ts

    s3ts Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,111
    Likes Received:
    2,851
    You're going to bash someone who ranks higher defensive WS and rating than Anthony Davis because you think stats suck nowadays, and transition defense, which isn't even an individually measured stat today, is a better metric.

    Again, if you're a Harden hater, just say you hate his style and be done with it. Stop saying **** that doesn't even make sense to support a position we don't care about.
     
    #36 s3ts, Sep 6, 2020
    34to11 and D-rock like this.
  17. D-rock

    D-rock Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    40,743
    Likes Received:
    64,232
    Personal agendas more important than Rockets wins.

    :rolleyes:
     
    #37 D-rock, Sep 6, 2020
    34to11 and s3ts like this.
  18. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,709
    Likes Received:
    9,592
    Super geeks like you come up with these goofy ass metrics... In what world is Harden a better defender than AD?... I'm sure you'll find some made up stat for it tho... And btw, I've said plenty times over the years that I'm no Harden stan... He's great at what he does for this particular style of play to thrive. I can debate your homer ass all day on his place among the greats, barbershop talk style.... Not some made-up analytical bullshit style!
     
    #38 javal_lon, Sep 6, 2020
  19. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    12,622
    Likes Received:
    9,761
    Only Rinfans, and those dumb enough to believe a narrative based on a YouTube video (ie Hillary supporters) think he doesn't play defence.

    I gave up arguing he is a decent defender back in 2016. He always has been good. He just took a few plays off in the early 2010s and was made to look bad. But advanced stats have always backed him defensively. Funnily enough the Rinfans who made the videos pretended their guy was an elite defender (he sucked. Fullstop).
     
    #39 DrNuegebauer, Sep 6, 2020
  20. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2000
    Messages:
    12,622
    Likes Received:
    9,761
    By the way, I'm not even American, but it seems your political scene us dominated by low differentiated people who think because they talk loudly they are right. Interesting
     
    #40 DrNuegebauer, Sep 6, 2020
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 2 of 3

Share This Page