Breaking News: Hamas Leader Killed in Israeli Air Strike

Ofcourse it helps the war. Just because your first instinct was that I think that all Muslims should kill all Israelis, that doesn't mean it's what I'm thinking.

As for distancing myself from extremists, I guess it all depends on your definition of it vs. mine.

Oh, and on "getting heat", ofcourse I'm not going to come on here and say what I think because everytime I try to express my view, you guys gang up and accuse me of wanting to brainwash you. So if I find that parts of my opinion may be offensive to most on this board, then I will by all means keep them to myself.

 

That was not my first instinct, but I am getting more and more the impression that you are not disinclined to lean that way.

As I suspected. Unclear wording, no clear distancing yourself from extremists...sad, especially considering that you are not even coming out with your full opinion, so it could be even worse.

So what's next, death to all non-believers?

 

Puh-lease, it was made clear to me that most Christians think that all non-Christians are going to hell, while I don't need to be told that it's what Jews think as well about non-Jews.

It was your first instinct and it was absolutely clear from your comments.


I don't need to say where I stand SJC.

On a side note, you're not making your stance exactly clear are you?

 

NOt convinced this is true --- but even if it were -- this doesn't mean they want to hasten the trip.

Sane, do you see a mid-east solution that includes an independent Israel?

 

If you ask me, I can try to answer and educate you.

However, obviously, if for you, a "clear stance" is only an extremist stance, then I am sorry, I don't have a clear stance.

 

bnb,

It was made clear to me that it's what many Christians think. There was some scandal with George Bush implying it in an interview, and there is an actual line in the Bible which I don't remember accurately, but says something like 'you will only go to heaven by going through me', with "me" being Jesus. As for the Jewish religion, they clearly believe it. Would like to note that this does not hold true for Islam.


As for your question, I would LIKE to see it, but I don't think it will happen. I personally think both sides are unwilling to do so, but won't make that clear. Instead, they will keep setting back all the attempts through some sort of violence. Killing Ahmad Yassin is a good example from Israel's side, while suicide bombers will be the equivalent from the Palestinian side.

 

So where do you stand on the Israel-Palestine issue?

 

A very generic question. I apologize, but it will take me a bit longer to answer in this generic form, and I have to literally run now. I will try to get back tomorrow.

 

Please don't ever take what George Bush implies and extend it to all christians. Or for that matter, any isolated line in the bible.

Besides, whether they believe you are going to Hell, to Heaven or to Ohio, shouldn' t concern you unless they're trying to book your ticket right away.

Thanks for your candor. I hope you are very wrong.

I was in Morocco a while back and pleased to see that everyone i met (and i met many people -- almost all moslems) were much more enthusiastic on peacefull coexistance with all religions. "We are all brothers from the same God" i think, was what many said.

Though your distrust of Israel may be valid, i hope that you, and other's can overcome it. (I'm also hoping that Sharon, and his ilk can come to their senses too).

I don't think it's as dire as you make out. WHen you meet, sit down and chat with people, it's amazing how less demonic they appear.

 

I read about Israel <b>daily</b> and realize what is possible in the near term and what isn't. For something to really happen from the Israeli side, the lead party in the coalition government must be open to taking a series of big steps. The coalition of a few years ago had Likud & Labor together........Labor opted out because it felt that Likud (Sharon) wasn't keeping its commitments that enticed Labor to join the coalition in the first place. One of the key reasons why Labor refused to join the coaltion govenment formed roughly 1 year ago is because it didn't feel confident in Likud (Sharon) keeping promises (commitments) to get them to join.

There are various alternative scenarios we could sit and explore:

1) What if Rabin wasn't killed?

2) What if Arafat had already passed away?

3) What if Sharon hadn't taken the <i>stroll</i> in Fall of 2000?

4) What if Arafat had stepped down because the Palestinian population felt his government was ineffective or lacked financial integrity?

5) What if the Labor Party (or some party more moderate than Likud and the hard rightwing) had been <i>better</i> in convincing the Israeli population that a compromise must be made and the <b>Palestinians would honor their part of the deal</b> (Land for Peace)?

6) etc.

Those are interesting jumping off points for further discussion, but none really are relevant to the situation at the current moment. There is some attempt/movement by the Left (Beilin & others) to get #5 accomplished, but they don't seem to be rounding the corner yet.

I call it <i>pragmatism</i>.

If the Palestinians were able to kill Sharon, the Israelis would be unlikley to raise the <i>White Flag</i> of surrender. Just as killing Sheikh Yassin has been a very short term fix .......killing Sharon would be a very short term fix.

Foreign tourists are afraid to come to Israel because of the potential for violence. People with ideas & funds to invest are also hesitant to do any deals in Israel because of the violence and unsettled situation. Extra Defense spending because of the unsettled siutation is also bad for the economy.

Yes.

 

US Complicity in Israel's Misdeeds

by Charley Reese
The murder of Hamas' spiritual leader, Sheik Yassin, makes perfect sense as long as you understand Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's strategy.

That strategy is to make peace impossible.

For three years, Sharon has done everything to prevent peace. He himself provoked the new uprising, re-invaded the occupied territories, destroyed the Palestinian Authority, forced Yasser Arafat into house arrest and launched an unprecedented, brutal campaign of assassinations, curfews, fences, destruction of property and random killing of Palestinians. The Israelis have killed about 2,700 Palestinians in the past three years, in contrast to about 700 Israelis killed in the same period.

At the same time, Sharon has refused all offers to negotiate, and whenever the Palestinians arranged a cease-fire on their side, Sharon broke it with a provocative raid or assassination. No other rogue state or rogue leader would have been allowed to get away with such behavior, but Israel has the U.S. government in its pocket. That's the answer to the question posed by the French ambassador to Great Britain as to why the world allows "this (expletive deleted) little country to cause the world so much trouble."

Sharon doesn't want peace, because he knows that any peace settlement would involve returning nearly all of the occupied territories to the Palestinians. Israel's goal has always been Palestine without Palestinians. He is greatly afraid that the world will lose patience and impose a settlement on Israel. Hence, his strategy is to make peace impossible so that he can impose unilaterally his own settlement – a settlement, of course, that will condemn the Palestinians to unlivable conditions.

Now, that's all well and good if you are an Israeli and don't mind condemning future generations to perpetual conflict, but what about Americans? This is, after all, not legitimately our conflict. I've traveled in Palestine and the Middle East, and while it's interesting, it's not high on my list of vacation spots. We would be much better off if the only Americans who ever went there were the crews of oil tankers.

Unfortunately, our politicians, by cravenly obeying the wishes of Israel and its powerful U.S. lobby, have made us a part of the conflict. We've already paid in blood and treasure. Anybody who doesn't understand that the attack on 9/11 was directly related to the Palestinian and Israeli conflict hasn't been paying attention.

The Arab world sees us – correctly – as an accessory before and after the fact to all the crimes Israel commits against the Palestinians and other Arabs in the area. We cannot load Israel down with modern weapons, with gifts of more than $90 billion of American tax dollars, with absolute protection from all attempts to hold it accountable under international law, and then pretend we are innocent. We are guilty by proxy of murder, land theft, destruction of property and all the other human misery that Israel has caused in the region.

So, if you're one of those rah-rah Israel First supporters, . You've allowed your politicians to enlist you in somebody else's war, and in war there are always casualties on both sides.

America has become a nation of pathological irresponsibility. Nobody wants to take responsibility for his or her own actions, which is the basic cause of the litigation flood. Least of all do American politicians wish to do so. They would rather heap on the manure that the terrorism directed at us has nothing whatsoever to do with the policies they have followed for the past 30 years or more. In truth, it has everything to do with those policies.

don't complain when the terrorists come looking for you, then blame your Christian Zionists, your Israel First crowd and your corrupt politicians who have their tongues in the ears and their hands in the pockets of the Israeli lobby.

*************
While I find it intemperate to say don't complain when the terrorists come looking for you the rest of the article has it right.

link don't complain when the terrorists come looking for you

 

is the spiritual leader of Hamas really Saruman the White Wizard?