NIH Panel recommends against Trump virus drug, study shows Trump virus drug has no benefit

So you think the drug helps ?

 

You see with @dachuda86 he would rather go down with the ship rather than admit he wrong to certain people. All this pretzel twisting is sad. I mean really sad.

 

You should be employed by them. It's frightening that trained medical researchers couldn't control for a situation that a layman figured out.

Or maybe you suffer from the dunning-kruger effect. You tell me which one is more reasonable.

 

Other than the idiot in chief shouldn't pre-pump anything related to medicine (or really anything at all --- you know, pre-pump isn't a good thing in general)... this is a continuation of bad news. We still got nothing for against this virus, except for staying the hell out of its way.

"The panel also concluded that there was insufficient evidence to recommend any kind of treatment either to prevent infection with the coronavirus or to prevent the progression of symptoms in those who are already infectious. That recommendation could change based on clinical trials presently underway."

 

No I'm not just talking about him (you're obsessed with trump so thats why you're falling back on him), again you're not getting it. Isolated anecdotal / case-series like accounts don't provile "real accounts". There's a reason we aren't using azithro anymore. But again, lets have you tell people who deal with this what to do.

 

There is no such thing as a "drug combo" the guidelines have actually said to stop using azithro. You just don't get it man, this is going over your head and you think you know more than anybody because you simply do not know enough, and don't know what you don't know. Its hilarious to see how an internet expert like you knows more than physicians or trained medical researchers who implement processes for the use of every drug you see on the market. Send them your CV man.

 

His responses perfectly illustrate some peoples’ view: “My common sense and what I know is just as good as what these experts know and if the evidence and facts don’t line up with my view then the evidence and facts must be wrong.”

Outlets like Fox News and people like Donald Trump have “confirmed” this view to these people.

 

LOL so it's a total failure as an emergency option right?

 

One virologist noted the other day that Hydroxychloroquine does change your PH levels so that's why in some occasions it can change the way you feel, but that doesn't mean it changed anything in regards to the underlying cause. Any shift in your PH either way will make you "feel" different for better or worse. Just go look a pool after it has it's chemicals re-adjusted.

So I know that reports like this are disappointing, but there is some level of explanation as to why there might be some worthwhile use for the drug in cases like this. But the fact is, there's certainly no evidence at this point that its a long term solution to properly treat the virus. It's something you can throw into the equation if your patient is just seeing no changes and you need to try some stuff to at least try for a change in pace.

What is more disappointing is that a Z-pack does what looks like nothing against this virus. That's the bigger part of this story that people aren't talking about because HC is the political lightning rod that it is.

 

LOL so you're so gungho about this because Trump isn't a doc???

 

People aren't typically diagnoses until the diseased has progressed significantly. The only cases where that won't be true is if it's a relative of someone who got sick and who was exposed.

It's very difficult to do the kind of of study you are proposing. If you give the drug to healthy individuals as a prophylactic, you are risking their lives with side effects and then because we do not have testing in place, it's challenging to ascertain whether it was effective in preventing the disease.

If you give it to people who test positive but are not showing symptoms, they could be already immune, or simply asymptomatic.

The key to these studies is having a clean control to test against, You don't have that. And people aren't getting treated in the early stages so putting people in the early stages of the disease isn't easy.

 

This is inside baseball stuff. As a layman, I honestly have no business drawing any conclusions from a VA study. The important thing to me is the NIH recommendation. But, even with the NIH recommendation, ultimately I'm going with my doctor -- if he says take it, I'll take it.

As for Trump, his promotion of the drug was bizarre and I can't help but think he had an ulterior motive. And even if the drug ultimately proved to be effective, it still wouldn't justify Trump's irresponsible behavior in running out in front of the science. He's jacking up 3-pointers from half-court to pad his own stats -- if it goes in, that doesn't mean I'm not going to jaw at him for doing it.

You say it's small and the AP says it's large.

 

A snake oil salesman always peddles hope in a crisis, and fear in calmer times.

 

How do you know when the drug was given?

Did you look at the study?

 

For those who are actually paying attention to drugs being tested right now and not just in the Hydroxychloroquine cult, here's an update on one of the drugs I know has been targeted as a "potential" treatment

 

As I've been saying I don't like the politicization of this treatment. I also am disappointed that this study isn't confirming some of the early positive effects of this drug had. Before completely ruling Hydroxychloroquine out we still need more study. At the moment we don't have many other options.

 

^^^Wouldn't expect any less than the experts on everything in life on clutchfans to chime in...

Here is the link to the actual study: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf

The study is a retrospective NON peer reviewed study with primarily black, males > 65 yo, and exclusively within the VA. HQ has been used since the 1950s and has been used primarily by physicians especially rheumatologists for a long time in this country and has been used internationally by physicians for antiparasitic diseases. Azithromycin.. one of the most prescribed antibiotics in the medical industry. One of the very rare side effects of both drugs is something that alters the electrical activity of the heart called QT prolongation. When both these drugs are used together, theoretically there is a higher risk.

Currently as per many guideline there are approaches to treat mild cases of coronavirus vs patients that have moderate to severe cases. There are many ongoing clinical trials that will look into this detail much more thoroughly. Patients with mild disease have some benefit. Where as those with moderate to severe disease have indeterminate effects. Oh and PS HQ is dirt cheap and is able to achieve steady state dosing for months after a very few overall doses. Remdesivir is almost $1000.00.

Lastly, an important point to make regarding patient selection bias -

However, hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease, as assessed by baseline ventilatory status and metabolic and hematologic parameters. Thus, as expected, increased mortality was observed in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine, both with and without azithromycin.​

They used the medications for patient's they deemed more severe disease.

 

Is that claim peer reviewed?

 

Its what we have been seeing with our patients at our institution...pending studies will likely verify these outcomes we have had.