1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

STOCK MARKET: Let's talk stocks and investing

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by SWTsig, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,943
    Likes Received:
    19,843
    Also interested to hear the answer on this one. I assume there's just some lag time.
     
  2. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,518
    Likes Received:
    3,879
    This is unbelievable
     
    Hakeemtheking and CCity Zero like this.
  3. Mr. Brightside

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    18,964
    Likes Received:
    2,147
    Yes, they are paying honest Americans to fill and hold the gas in their cars/trucks during this troubling time. All storage facilities land and sea are full at this point so your Chevy Tahoe is the next great strategic reserve.
     
  4. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    There's no time lag with ETFs. They just don't track spot prices.
     
  5. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,518
    Likes Received:
    3,879
    I am pretty certain USO had the may accounted for, so that could explain why it isn't sitting at $0. With barrels now around -$37, anything can happen. The odds are it will go up quickly.
     
    CCity Zero likes this.
  6. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    46,612
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    I believe WTI just closed at -$35 ... some people saying this is reflective of something worse happening behind the scenes that the price dropped this far below $0.
     
    CCity Zero likes this.
  7. The Real Shady

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    3,972
    So this is just because they have nowhere else to store it this month? No demand?
     
  8. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,518
    Likes Received:
    3,879
    Which huge company just went under? Oil company or bank?
     
  9. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,334
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    This is absolutely insane.
     
    Hakeemtheking likes this.
  10. Redfish81

    Redfish81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    4,766
    Likes Received:
    6,882
    Alright..took my own advice. Bought TOT for a long term hold. They have 25 billion in cash and a solid balance shhet.
     
    Nook likes this.
  11. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,334
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    Well GILD killed the market, haha - not serious but it was silly stock got downgraded - since it was clear how trial was run from beginning... Anyway, I think as earnings come into play for more companies there will be a pullback regardless, I never expected oil to do this though. So now.... Yeah... Ie I expected lower oil but wow
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    USO holds June and July contracts right now - today's price has zero impact on USO. Oil prices tomorrow will show as $20.

    Every day, USO shifts about 5% of it's holdings and has to pay a 25% premium each time because of the shape of the curve. Meaning that USO is losing 25% of its value per month right now even if oil prices don't change.
     
    davidio840 likes this.
  13. Dream Sequence

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2000
    Messages:
    1,132
    Likes Received:
    623
    At negative $35/barrel, just take delivery and light a match - no storage needed
     
    The Real Shady likes this.
  14. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    46,612
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    Depends on the ETF you're talking about -- there is no one answer. If you're talking about USO, it trades in front-month contracts until sometime towards the end of the month where they roll a portion of those investments into the next month. USO should have already done this by now -- I'm not sure what that percentage is. This is why I tell people to stay away from these things if they don't know what they're doing.
     
    OldManBernie and CCity Zero like this.
  15. davidio840

    davidio840 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,518
    Likes Received:
    3,879
    Thanks for that info, great stuff. So if oil is up to $20 tomorrow, wouldn't the USO gain value? Or is it still going to be losing due to the premiums?
     
  16. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,334
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    Yeah ET* is a mess really need to do DD and no good answer as there's so many to choose... I'll play some but typically very short.
     
  17. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,681
    Likes Received:
    16,205
    No - it already owns the $20 oil. Here's its holdings:

    http://www.uscfinvestments.com/holdings/uso

    You can see its daily trades at the bottom - it buys JULY each day and sells JUNE. Here's the current prices of each:

    https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy/crude-oil/light-sweet-crude.html

    So if prices don't move, tomorrow, it will selling about 5% of its holdings for $20.39 and buy the same amount for $26.20 (28% premium). So if nothing changes between now and tomorrow afternoon, USO will lose about 5% * 28% of it's value - or about 1.4%. As long as the curve is that steep between the first two futures months, USO will keep losing a good amount of value daily.

    Unfortunately, there's no simple way to just invest in the spot price of oil, or even the future price of oil. The "simplest" is buying a futures contract for your preferred time frame, but as we see from WTI today, that can be chaos if you hold it too long.
     
    CCity Zero and davidio840 like this.
  18. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    46,612
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    I don't know how much it may rise or fall, but USO is already trading those June contracts. What some people think is that June prices will start to fall as well and they're shorting it. As usual, "this is not financial advice" (seriously). :D
     
  19. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2014
    Messages:
    7,334
    Likes Received:
    3,631
    I have a USO call I bought for cheap few weeks back ... I figured it was dead but it's coming back, hahah, it's 5/8 call... Seriously garbage call
     
  20. The Real Shady

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    17,173
    Likes Received:
    3,972
    Makes sense. There will still be low demand and no where to store it next month either so the next contract should crash.
     

Share This Page