One more new poll... https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hal...irus-normal-takes-hold-poll/story?id=70073942
Group thinking is part of the problem here. Remember it wasn’t just Trump but his supporters, the right wing talking head on fox and radio all saying this was basically a hoax. Critical thinking went out of the door and echo chamber got half of the nation into full complacency mode. The trump and America culture played a huge part of being woefully unprepared and having inadequate plan in place to deal with this. I’m afraid we are seeing phase 2 of that now that there has been another group message push to reopen up soon with phrases such as describing the social distancing mandate as “hiding under the bed” (Bill Barr). I imagine that some on the right have now calculated that they must restart the Econ engine for trump to have any chance in nov and damn the data and the experts. It’s reek as being another gamble that is politically driven. While there are push back by the experts within the admin (opening on Easter date), the other group is being loud and clear in their push. Yes, there should be a robust debate on how and when to open back up and I’m sure that’s happening but I have very little confident that the trump culture would make the best decision for the American people. It’s likely going to be a snap erratic decision and we all again will pay the price.
A) He appointed most of the people bungling this B) He has made very poor decision, not just bad presentations C) Why is he not helping the states and instead having FEMA seize their medical supplies? D) Why did he refuse the WHO's test kits early on? E) Why is there still a shortage of test kits? F) Why did he disband the pandemic response team in 2017? G) Why did he delay using the powers at his disposal to declare a national emergency and institute production of medical equipment? H) Why is he not being transparent about how he is spending money? I) Why is he putting people with little to no experience like Kushner in charge? I could keep going if you like. Please explain how these criticisms are not fair.
The consistent message I'm seeing from Trump supporters is to lift the stay at home orders and reopen the economy as soon as possible. Trump himself said he wants an opening up in May as part of some big splashy event. My guess is we will see some states cave in to this political pressure and we will probably see a lot of people defying stay at home orders. Look for many churches to be holding religious services this weekend with many saying they are doing so specifically in defiance of the stay at home orders.
How did this exercise in assuaging your personal guilt go? It didn't have to be this way but you and others made a terrible, selfish choice. You bear part of the responsibility.
I wanted to respond to this. I brought up in the "It's possible to support Trump thread" that I don't want him to fail because him failing would take us down too. I also agree that there have been many over the top attacks on Trump. I also don't blame him for the virus and understand that almost every country had some serious missteps at the beginning and even here in America many of Trump's critics like Andrew Cuomo were downplaying the severity of the threat in January and early February. I agree fairness combined with healthy skepticism of political rhetoric is important. We can consider all of that and Trump still is an abject failure. As you said many thought once he won the Presidency he would grow into the position. He hasn't. If anything he's debased the position. You talk about people robbing you blind. The evidence points to Trump profiting off of the Presidency. This is the same guy who admitted to ripping off charities for veterans to benefit his campaign. During impeachment these comments were made about Trump, "Shameful", "Impeachable", "the House managers overwhelmingly proved their case." Those weren't from Democrats. Those were from Republican Senators and those aren't even Mitt Romney. Regarding the response to COVID 19 again I understand mistakes get made that said many of these are avoidable mistakes. I undrestand that you're setting aside things like his rants and his style that said for a President those things actually matter. The President isn't just some administrator but he is also a symbol. What he says and how he says it has enormous implications. Consider FDR. "All we have to fear is fear itself." That statement alone is rather odd and not substantive. What matters though is how it was delivered. FDR made that statement at one of the darkest points of the country when the situation was even more dire than now. It was his calm and confident demeanor that helped to instill faith in the US system. Many of the New Deal ideas failed and some might've even made the Depression worse. FDR by force of personality and demeanor was able to rally the nation to get through both the Depression and WWII. Trump isn't doing that. He isn't doing that because it's not in his nature. His nature is self-aggrandizement, blame and deflection. That is not the way anyone should manage a crisis. This also ignores besides just what he is saying there has been a lot of confusion and reversals regarding policy. All of this goes to the top. This goes to something else I've brought up. Trump has turned the idea of leadership on his head. Much of the criticism of the critics is that we are making Trump's job harder and if we want to him to lead we need to be easy on him. Pardon my language but no sh^t being President is a hard job and it should be hard. Leadership is leading. He is the President and if he can't win over the critics or handle the criticism he shouldn't be there. Every great President has had a lot of critics. Lincoln literally had a big part of the country in a state of war against him. Maybe it's not fair to expect Trump to be FDR or Lincoln but this is a crisis and we need a President who can rise to it. Not a President to half-ass things and blame reporters for mean questions. Finally and I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm picking on you. You wrote, "I watched the primary debates for the last election, and I thought he was being a bully. At the same time, some part of me responded to it, and I found myself enjoying the debates and to varying degrees rooting for him. Not saying this was a proud moment." This isn't Trump's fault and Trump is a symptom of a problem in American culture. He's a smart enough con man to exploit it. We've come to the point where we prize attitude as the most important character trait. We prize it over things like thoughtfulness, introspection, caution and humility. We prize it over competence and Trump is the clearest example. We love the people who "KEEP IT REAL!" who "TELL IT LIKE IT IS!" and "I KNOW I'M RIGHT! THE REST ARE JUST HATERS!" Those make for really entertaining reality TV but it is dangerous for a leader. Dave Chapelle's skit "When keeping it Real Goes Wrong" is funny because it is very true. We don't want Presidents who lack self-confidence but want leaders who are willing to listen to advice and act with forethought. Granted Trump has been listening to experts and Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx appears to be making a difference. It took awhile for him to get there and before he got there was he was denying and downplaying things. For this country we should expect more out of our President..
This. The poll numbers will push him this direction as well. His handling of the pandemic isn’t popular with conservatives and he isn’t gaining any moderate or liberal support. The South and states Trump gets support from are the ones financially being hit the hardest by the quarantine and that isn’t politically good for Trump either. There are cultural and social factors at work as well with churches, large social and family gatherings in the South and the coming Summer months where people will want out. Now, it is a huge risk though because if the virus picks up steam again in the Fall he is toast. Also the issue with voters isn’t going to be the current economic condition, it will be their optimism for the coming economic condition. I am in the minority but for a number of reasons I believe the economy will bounce back fairly quick and that will greatly help the President’s re-election chances.
I think the country would be better served if the top people of the administration stay out of the daily briefings altogether. They're politicians who can't help but try to exploit the moment for their own political gain, especially since this is an election year. Good luck trying to get a real answer from Pence, let alone Trump. Just let the experts and the top administrators handle the job and communicate the progress reports regarding the fight. That way, things would stay on point instead of getting derailed by political babble or the addressing a reporter who asks a question that has nothing to do with the COVID-19 battle. I know it's wishful thinking with no possibility of it happening. What a fubar.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I agree with a fair amount of what you said. I do think the way he handles himself is a problem. And your point re: the president as a symbol is a good one. However, What the administration has actually done vis a vis the virus appears to be working. Trump does appear to listen to his medical advisors. We are making progress. We can discuss (as has been beaten to death already) whether he should have moved earlier. But, like many, his response has evolved. I guess my reaction is to what seems to be overly aggressive attacks where the attacks don’t seem fair. There are plenty of things people who want to criticize Trump can point to, including his demeanor, messaging, etc. when everything gets criticized with no recognition of the things he or his team may be doing right, it blunts the impact of the legitimate criticisms because at some point, right or wrong, some people will just tune out.
btw, the Secretary of Homeland Security would have a key role in the Coronavirus crisis. The shoddy way trump has approached that role (relying on a series of ACTING secretary's to avoid congressional advise and consent) is only one reason the trump adminsitartion has been slow to respond and ill prepared for this crisis...
Yes we're making progress. we're now #1 worst hit Pandemic country. America first, finally But you right people will tune out. People who voted for him will tune out. Because they are ashamed. **** them anyway. And **** the people who voted for him but now demand understanding and kindnesses. You folks aren't in a position to make demands from the rest of us, just like Trump isn't in a position to demand that the cities that will destroy his reelection prospects "reopen".
I'm gonna say it's a hoax and put my idiot son in law in charge while abandoning hundreds of thousands to death and millions to suffering. Can I get an A- up in this house? Or has polarization and partisan ship foreclosed that?
I'm curious for a personal reason : What would you need Trump to do for you to abandon him? People seem to like Trump on a personal level. They like his bravado, his charisma and his ability to rile up the opposite camp with what they consider to be pretty negligent issues. I don't know how you personally feel, but given O'Reilly's statement on Covid deaths targeting people "on their last legs", even the fact that US has twice as many death as it would have if we had someone like Merkel handling it could be a "negligent issue" for all I know - you seem to overlook it in your posts after all. So what would it take for you to break your loyalty/support? I can't talk to my Trump supporting folks because they feel they are treated unfairly even if I simply state facts that undermine Trump. But if we can't hold political discourse between supporters of different political camps, this means our government will be sh*t - taking apart things last administration did regardless if it was good or bad and not building things that there is consensus about quick enough. And this way we lose - some country (eg China) overtakes us. So it is interesting for me to see if there is even a ground for conversation here. And I'm sure every Trump supporter is different and there are liberals supporting Bernie/Hillary/Joe in much the same way. I'm still curious though - what would Teflon Don have to do?
