Turnovers of Rockets players

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...unless they come late in the game at crucial moments, turnovers for a center mean almost nothing

 

Ummm, I guess I missed the discussion before but why??

 

because, since centers generally stay in one area of the floor, they get double teamed more often than the other players. Either they're trying to take on more than one defender going to the basket, or they're trying to pass out of a double team. Turnovers are sort of natural for a Center...as long as they have around a 1:1 assist/turnover ratio, they're fine...

 

So if Yao has 5 TOs in a game, its fine? How can you say TOs are natural for a C, when they are not. Look at guys like the Dream, Shaq, Duncan, etc... they rarely turned the ball over and they are double teamed almost everytime.

Sure they get double teamed alot, but Yao is big enough and smart enough to know how the react to that. Yao gets TOs when he gets the ball popped out from behind him or when someone comes from his blind side and straight steals it.

TOs are crucial whenever it happens, no matter whether its the beginning or the final seconds of the game.

 

Shaq is #14 on the TO list with 4.0pg
Duncan is #20 with 3.6pg

I don't have Hakeem's numbers back in the glory days, but I'd imagine it would routine for him to get 3-5 TO every game. I know I've seen a fair share of Hakeem getting his pocket picked by guards.

These things just happen. Players don't have eyes on the back of their head. Many times, a post player relies on teammates to tell him that a double team is coming.

Now, Yao does have a problem with TOs in terms of how many touches he gets. But he's just a 2nd year player, and this is something that he can easily get better at with experience. Remember last year, when he was a TO machine at times? Well, it's much better this year, and as long as he just keeps it at 3-4 a game even when the offense revolves around him, I'll be content.

 

Donot forget Yao has one deaf ear ...

 

career turnovers per game:

Olajuwon - 2.96
Duncan - 3.11
O'Neal - 2.89
Yao - 2.23

career turnovers/48 minutes

Olajuwon - 3.97
Duncan - 3.8
Shaq - 3.67
Yao - 3.47

What are you whining about again?

Turnovers are simply a non-critical element of a center's game. How often do you see turnovers mentioned in scouting reports of centers? Sure, Yao gets the ball stolen from him some, but that's not a case of bad decision making, that's just good defensive work. Also, how often does Yao turn the ball over when he's being defended one-on-one? I could probably count on one hand the number of times that's happened...can't say the same for Steve, Cat, or Jackson

 

We always hear about how Yao's a great passer, but why isn't he racking up some assists like Sabonis used to.

 

Another note about TOs by center vs guard is fast break opportunities. When Yao turns it over, we easily get back on defense. When Stevie makes one of his lazy passes or gets his pocket picked, it's a slam dunk at the other end. So not all TOs are created equal.

 

when yao is firmly estabilished as the center of the offense he'll get 3 or 4 a game.

right now he doesn't get the ball consistenly enough at consistent spots to consistently make good passing decisions. unless double teamed he's looking to shoot every time.

also... it doesn't help that not too many of our other players can hit the mid ranged J.

 

An assist occurs only when the receiver scores.

 

Centers get assists usually through two ways: pass to cutters, or pass out from double team to open perimeter teammates.

Our offense hardly has any cutters for Yao to pass to. That leaves passing out to open perimeter shots. We don't have consistent spot up shooters. Francis is not a spot up shooter. Mobley and JJ can catch and shoot, but both of them are very streaky. Our best spot up shooter is Pike, but he seldom plays.

If we had an offense like that of the Kings, Yao would have a lot more opportunities to use his passing skill.

 

Good point, which answer all those question!

 

You say that turnovers for a C are not crucial. Like I said, whether they come in the beginning of the game or the last minute, they are still opportunities we missed.

Maybe my Dream, Shaq, example wasn't the best, but I can't agree on your idea of non-crucial turnovers. Yes, scouting reports don't emphasize big-men turnovers, because they don't get a lot, not because they aren't important.

I'm not arguing who's fault the TOs are, but saying "TOs for a C are not crucial," is just plain wrong. Any TO, no matter who's fault, is an opportunity to score thrown out the window, period.

 

I think the point is that you shouldn't evaluate centers based on TO's, not that the turnovers themselves don't suck.

 

If even DREAM and SHAQ are not good enough sample for you, where else you could find evidence to support your argument?

stuborn. way too stuborn man.

 

What are you talking about? I'm not saying C's should be evaluated on their turnovers, but that TOs in general, no matter who commits them or why they happen is a crucial part of the game. I already said that my example wasn't the best, but what evidence do you need to know that TOs are bad, no matter who has them.

Lobo- when did I ever say to evaluate Centers based on their TOs. Whether SF gets 5 TOs or Yao gets 5 TOs, it is still 10 chances that we threw away.

My whole point is that TOs, no matter who has them or when they come are crucial. Does anyone on this board truly believe that TOs, for any player, are not crucial to winning games?

 

This is how i see those turnovers from..

Steve - Charging, fancy passes, carrying, a few bad shots such as.. airball.. over the back.. etc..

Cuttino - Palming/carrying, offensive foul, charging.

JJ - stepping out of bounds


Yao - getting hacked - losing the ball, stupid calls.

 

jesus man, the point is that centers are "allowed" more turnovers due to the nature of the game (especially in an inside out offense). if a center was getting the ball constantly and averaged only 1 turnover a game, that would be otherworldly.