No doubt, that is as sickening as blowing people up. It just seems that there are more religious terrorists in the Muslim faith right now, and I am wondering what sections of the Koran are they reading that makes them think it is OK to blow themselves or someone else up? I mean, how in hades, does someone convince another that this is the way into heaven? I don't get it...... Of course I didn't get Jim Jones either. DD
adeelsiddiqui and DD, You want to know the strange thing about the clerics vs dictatorships... You might have read in the press (history books) about how the USA, for the last 50 years have topled the "fundamentalist" regimes...Because the USA, at the time, didn't want a "SECULAR" leaders to rule those countries. Why? Because the USA wanted those counties CONTROLLED. Some neo-cons didn't want DEMOCRACY and CAPITALISM to flourish in those countries. Strange, huh? Maybe some of you history buffs can shed light on this... Iran is an interesting country to keep an eye on. The YOUTH of that country is slowly, but surely taking over. They are post-modern liberal thinkers; complete with pop-music and Pepsi! But the cleric still have some power too. But they are getting old...
I see the future of Iran as how Turkey is now... And many of you dont realize, but Youth all over every Middle Eastern Country blast music(anything from britney to justin, Prince to Eminem), wear FUBU, eat at MCd's, BK, hardees, herfy, subway pizza hut, etc. They drive beamers, stangs, and vettes. They smoke Marlboro, Newports, and Wills. They watch basketball, and root for sports teams The Middle East is not a big desert with dumbasses who couldnt tell you what a computer is... That is the worst of stereotypes. and DD, it is the fact that suicide bombers dont read the Quran... These are the ignorant ones. It is the people who have sinned their whole lives and want to repent it with one big bang, literally. They are afraid of the after life, and easily get convinced that taking down non believers is the way to go. Its like a typical movie. Guy is depressed, sells his soul to devel for some instant succes and happiness, later on discovers that soul was worth more, but it is too late to turn back...
The West Wing had a very interesting episode on this subject, with one of the principals asking the question (please correct me if I'm off a little) Islam is to Muslim Extremists as Christianity is to ... the KKK. Just because these extremists also profess to follow the Islamic religion, doesn't mean that we should think of all Muslims as extremists. No more than we should think of all Christians as members of the KKK, all Germans as Natzi's. You can't generalize about the entire group of people, based on the actions of a few extremists. The second greatest act of terrorism on U.S. soil is arguably the Oklahoma City Bombing -- performed by a U.S. Citizen. Ditto with a couple of people who terrorized the Washington area shooting people out of the trunk of a car. There are crazy people of every race, creed, and religion. Don't lump these particular nuts in with the millions of peaceful, law abiding Muslims who are just trying to navigate their way through this truoubled time.
I think that is all that we ask for, some respect, and some education amongst every citizen that we are not exactly ALL terrorists. The KKK and Nazi analogies are exactly how a Muslim --> Terrorist relation ship is shown. Sad, but o so true...
So God doesn't like His followers being whores. You are proving nothing at all, in fact I laugh at your feeble attempts to conjure up valid reasoning here. There is no perfect religion, there is only perfection in the deity the religion attempts to appease. You pointed out an error in humanity! whoa! good for you, Never been done before has it? Light up the Applause sign please, give this man his due.
What is being said in this thread doesn't agree with this recent Poll. If the people being questioned were students in a Pakistani <i>madrassa</i> or people exiting a mosque in Saudi Arabia, then I would understand the sentiments, but these were Muslims living in Britain. <a HREF="http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2649727">British Muslims 'Back Terror Strikes on Us'</a> <i> More than one in 10 British Muslims back al Qaida-style terror strikes on the United States, a poll revealed tonight. As the anniversary of war in Iraq approaches, more condemned the recent Gulf conflict than attacks on America. And almost half said they might consider becoming a suicide bomber if they lived as a Palestinian. An overwhelming 80% say Britain and the US should not have launched the invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein. That is significantly higher than the 73% opposed to terrorist strikes on the US, according to the ICM survey for The Guardian. <b> Attacks on the US by al Qaida or other groups were viewed as justified by 13% of the 500 British Muslims questioned. Another 15% said they did not know whether the such attacks are wrong or right. </b> Far fewer, 10%, said Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George Bush were right to go to war. Liberal Democrat MP Jenny Tonge provoked fury when she said that despite condemning violence living as a Palestinian could have driven her to become a suicide bomber. However, 47% of Muslims agreed compared with just 15% of all of those questioned. Ms Tonge’s comments were rejected by 43% of Muslims and 78% of all voters. Continuing Islamic hostility to the war is costing Mr Blair support at the polls. Backing for Labour among British Muslims has slipped from 75% at the last election to just 38%, the poll showed. However, overall the party remains ahead on 37% despite a fall of one point on last month. Conservatives are up one on 35% while the Liberal Democrats remain on 21%. ICM questioned 500 Muslims between March 3-11 and another 1,014 other adults between March 10-11.</i>
That's why it's in the USA's (and the worlds) best interest that the young kids of Iraq do not fall in the hands of extremist. Because it's the young kids of Iraq that will change their country for the better (or worse). Not the U.S. It will be those kids that will "police" their own country.... And and it's a slow process. Takes decades for change.
Yep...this falls in line with young muslims that feel ostracized in *other* countries, more so than their own countries. Imagine, being a muslim, living in the UK or Germany, where most of the natives looked at you with suspicious eyes. How would that make you feel? No wonder why they are attracted to the extremes groups; groups that feed their hatred, fears and gives them a sense of kinship. Just like the white youth, that join the neo-natzi groups...These neo-militants look for the young/outcast as targets for recruitment. Same with the extremist "islamist" groups.
Just to clarify: - Extremist Islam is a choice. No instituion in the world teaches "extremist Islam" without a choice. Nowhere in the world. It's always a choice. - The Qura'an can be translated to get a feel for it, but you can't cite it, because a lot of Arabic words can't be translated into other languages properly. It's a very very complex language, with the adjectives and such being SUPER specific. The reason we don't encourage translation is because the Qura'an has not changed in form since Day 1 when it was written, and it has remained that way ever since. One version. There's no such thing as an English Qura'an, you have to specifiy that it's an English translation of the Qura'an's words. - People under the age of 24 constitute around 70% of the Iranian population currently. Unfortunately, they've been in a prison so long, now they want to break free in the worst way. By worst way I mean breaking every single law that this government has set up so far. While I disagree with MOST of what's going on in the Gov't there, I don't want to see this youth destroying any resemblance of rules and laws and having complete freedom. Humans are stupid, and young humans even stupider than that. Some laws are needed. DaDa, The parts in the Qura'an causing this mess are the parts that refer to holy war. Every Tom, Dick and Harry thinks he can send a letter to the Al Jazeera News Channel and decide its time for Holy War for himself, and he'll convince a bunch of people around him. These people will learn how to fly, and then fly into buildings. Is that what the Qura'an told them? Hell no. But the Qura'an DOES state that someone who dies for Allah and Islam goes straight to Heaven, regardless of past sins. Some people are just mentally challenged, and some people are just stubborn (don't seek anyone's advice). These are the people who are turning into terrorists. A murderer doesn't go to Heaven, and neither does someone who takes his own life. There are exceptions to the rule, for example if it's in self-defense, but those two rules are pretty much set in stone. Jihad takes place under sever oppression, and when the other side has taken the first steps in war, and also when there's absolutely NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE and almost EVERYONE agrees that it's absolutely necessary. To this day, almost none of these conditions have been met, and personally, I doubt they ever will. I don't remember the quotes accurately, but I don't believe the Qura'an says that Jihad WILL take place, but it's more "IF this happens, THEN it will take place". It remains to be seen what direction world powers will take, and whether they'll lead to a holy war.
What is Wrong with the Catholic Faith? What is it that leads Catholic Priests to have a propensity towards child molestation? Why has the official church tried to cover it up for years? Is there something in the text that promotes this type of behavior? Why are such a high number of Catholic priets child molestors?? And for many people to denounce comparing the time of the christian reformation in the 1400's to today's Islam; 1400 AD was about 1400 years after the beginnings of the religion. Islam is currently about 1300 years old, so when Christianity was the same age we saw rampant extremism whether we're talking about the Crusades, the Inquisition as well as extremist sects like the Puritans which I would consider similar to Wahabbism form of Islam practiced in Saudi Arabia and taught through the Madrassas (religious schools)
i'm not catholic...but to be fair, these questions have been open game for some time now. actually church polity and the church's stance on priests not being able to marry have been openly questioned.
Wahabbism can not be pinpointed as the reason for the terrorist acts, Yes many of the Arabs follow this, but a large MAJORITY of them are not terrorists, Example Waleed Bin Talal, a strong supporter of USA and their foreign policy, but he is a Wahabbi. Most muslims dont even think of themselves different other than Shiite and Sunni. Thats it, any other sects are just ways of doing the same thing. I for example refuse to say that I am hanafi, shafai, Wahabbi, etc. I say I am a sunni Muslim, Period. It doesnt matter what you are, its how you are influenced. Many of the kids that are taught in the madrasa's turn out to be honest and great Imams(leaders) who dont preach violence, or suicide, so I dont see how Wahabbism is a reason for terrorism. Plus no where does anyone come out and say that they are wahhabi, and many of the teachings are mixed or are the same within these sects.
Mango, would you not consider suicide if your family was killed of by say the Canadian Gov, and they took over all of USA, and there was nothing but throwing rocks you could do to stop it. And if you talked to someone who tells you that there is a better option, you can go to heaven by commiting suicide, Truly its wrong, but a depressed individiual is all ears... That is how I think, and Imm sure the people in the article you pulled out think similarly.
Well, Catholics aren't running around blowing themselves up in the name of Allah, now are they? I didn't think so. The Puritans did not blow up innocents with cowardly bombs. The Wahabbists seek a world under Muslim rule and will do anything to destroy the West. And yet it is tolerated under the lie that Islam is peaceful? Why is it then that nearly every war in the world today has to do with an Islamic nation? We have Sudanese muslims persecuting and killing Christians in the Sudan. We have Muslims killing Jews in Israel. Everywhere there is Islam, there is some sort of conflict. Here's another peace-loving quote from the Koran:
Catholics? Well they're too busy molesting children to worry about killing for a cause I guess? (If you can't tell I am just using the same logic that Bamaslammer does) And if we add up the lives total for the 20th century, it would seem that the Christians have the highest stack. WWII and WWI ring a bell? They were predominantly Christian nations: Germany, France, Britain, Austria, USA, Japan (partially). Therefore Christians must have the highest proclivity to murder and killing. I see the muslim world as a socio-economic world that has been the doormat and been used as colonies and puppets of the west for very long and now you have a bunch of pissed people. I'm not saying its right, and their methods certainly aren't, but that is the stereotypical muslim country now days. Bama and Adeel, Wahhabism and its hard-line approach is wrong and idiotic. I agree with you 100%, and I believe if the original muslims would have seen what was done in the name of the faith, they would be devastated. Till today Islam is the first religion EVER to give rights of inheratance to women. Marriage is only done when the women has consented, making it more important than the consent of the man. One of the prophet's wives led an army and was known as a scholar of Islam, yet today in Saudi Arabia a woman cannot even drive, must sit in separate sections while pulling their veils forward only enough so that they may gobble a few bites without showing an inch of their skin like some kind of leper. Women are forced into marriage and society is simply a few crusty, controlling old men's fantasy of a ruled society. There is no freedom of expression or thought, just a hard line rule in which personal freedom means nothing. This is not the world of Islam and it disgusts me that anyone can believe it is.
wait...woo hoo...hold up...these were not theocracies...they were democracies. yes, a substantial portion of the population in each of these nations is Christian...but WWII was not waged on spiritual grounds. comparing Iran to WWII era UK or France is just faulty.
Khan, The fact that you are saying that Wahhabism is the reason that Women aren't getting rights, like driving is just plain wrong. Its more of a cultural thing. In Arabia/Middle East even nonmuslims cover up, in India many hindu women cover their heads, nuns cover up most of their body in christianity. That has nothing to do with it being Wahhabism, Yes it is in Islam that a woman should cover up, does it say that she shouldnt drive a car-NO. Its the Government run by certain idiots that does that, Not Wahabbism. Heck Islam even orders Men to cover up their body parts to a certain extent. And if you are indecent, well you will be punished. Who says women are forced into marriage in Saudi, they have just as many rights as men do. There are women that run the houses sitting at home, and they prefer to do it that way. Yes one thing that is still mind boggling is the no women car driving, but it is something that the people have been pressuring the Gov. to remove, and hopefully one day will. I still don't see how you can say that Wahhabism is the reason why terrorists are coming forth,(that is what I got out of your posts, correct me if I am wrong). In fact I believe that it is their preachings that say that terrorism/suicide bombings are wrong, and are very strict about that.
