That's a good thing to not forget. When 9/11 hit I had a good friend who works in Battery Park City, about 20 blocks away from Ground Zero and I remember frantically trying to call him to get out of there. He was OK because he was still on the subway when the towers got hit. The bar that got blown up in Bali I had visited in 1997 and it was a very sad day to see something like that happen.
Which is why we need to go after these guys with a vengence, no matter what country they are hiding in. DD
Which is why Iraq was a total waste of time unless the intention was to make our troops a target *after* we took over Iraq. Also makes our coddling of Pakistan a curiosity. Maybe we'll crackdown if we get closer to the election and Bush is still behind in the polls.
Iraq was a problem we would have to deal with, sooner or later. Better sooner. So by that rationale, you think that it would be better that Saddam still rule Iraq? And no, I'm not going to allow you the dodge of "I'm glad he's gone, but we shouldn't have gone to war." We shouldn't coddle Pakistan, but I imagine there is something going on there beneath the surface, because much of the war on terror is not publicized.
Did you catch this quote from the European Commission chief? "It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists." Unbelievable.
Full context: http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=9259 Prodi: Iraq war has boosted terrorism European Commission president says Madrid attacks show Iraq war has left terrorism 'indefinitely more powerful'. ROME - Last week's deadly bomb attacks in Madrid show the negative impact of the conflict in Iraq, which has left terrorism "infinitely more powerful" than when the war began a year ago, European Commission president Romani Prodi said in an interview published Monday. "It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists," Prodi was quoted as saying in the daily La Stampa. "We must remember that it has been a year since the war in Iraq started." "Terrorism is infinitely more powerful than a year ago," he told the paper. He added that all of Europe "felt under attack" following last Thursday's bomb blasts in Spain that killed 200 people and injured almost 1,500. Prodi also raised the possibility of the European Union creating a position for an EU commissioner in charge of the fight against terrorism. "This event forces European countries to come up with a joint action plan," he said. "In Madrid, there are explicit demands from the population for Europe to ensure people's security and protection." Prodi said the issue was likely to be raised at a scheduled EU summit in Brussels next week. He said he felt "encouraged" by changes taking place in the United States which, he felt, appears more willing to cooperate with the rest of the world. "All the Democrats and some Republicans believe that the United States must cooperate with other countries and should act alone only in exceptional circumstances," he said. "It is not Europe which is getting closer to the United States but rather America which is moving toward us."
Saw that, Sam, but still that quote stands out. He explicitly didn't say "The Iraq War is not the answer...". Very poor choice of words, imho.
Except that we were attacked when we didn't to anything. We're going to be attacked as long as there are terrorists. The best we can do is ensure they have a hard time opperating. An Islamic Fundamentalist goal is to ensure that the entire middle east (and then probably the rest of the world) is run by Islamic theocracies. Plus they want Israel gone. There will always be Islamic terrorists until that goal is achieved and their goal is simply not acceptable to most of the world including most of the people (i.e. the women!) that live there. We can either do as we've done for the last 20 or so years and make a lot of noise when the bombs go off but then forget about it or we can fight back. Fighting back by attacking their economic infrastructure and bases of operation at least deserves a shot!
we had contained the pathetic impotent old man for 12 years with fly overs. iraqis didnt want us to come in. no one was afraid of him invading. he had no weapons and no ties to al qaeda. so iraq was absolutely not a problem we had to deal with sooner that dealing with the most clear and present danger, al qaeda. its the typical pro-bush question to impose on those against the war: so if you had your way saddam would still be in power? my response to bush and the pro-"lets go do stuff in iraq" is: we had your way and now $100 billion dollars are wasted, 500+ dead troops, al qaeda alive and well directly because we targeted a weak old man instead of osama, and now another huge terrorist attack due to our weak misdirected war on terror. bush is directly responsible. and those behind him are on Team Dodo.
To an extent, he's right. There is no resolving the conflict with terrorists. What is the stated goal of an organization like al Qaeda? They don't have a list of demands that if we follow, they'll forever leave us be. The stated goal is our destruction. How do you resolve that? And it's just not feasible to kill every terrorist or potential terrorist (especially since many who sow the seeds of terrorism don't participate directly themselves and, therefore, often do not end up as targets of our force).
They published a list of goals after 9/11. They wanted to kick American out of Saudi Arabia. The Bushies obediently followed directions. Then they wanted to overthrow the government of Saudi Arabia and establish a pan Muslim state of something weird like that.
I am convinced more than ever that Tom Clancy had it right in Rainbow 6. Create a multinational force that is basically a kill squad and dispatch them to go after terrorists as need be. DD
So, we're out of the woods then vis-a-vis al Qaeda? I mean, we gave in to their stated goal. Does anyone really believe that even if we completely left the Middle East, we wouldn't still be a target of terrorists?
Well that was only one of their stated goals. But I don't believe it matters if we gave in on all of them. Al Qaeda would still try and inflict damage. Though if we did give in on all of their goals, their support network would start to whither up and die.
That's assuming they just wouldn't find new goals and possibly new rubes to get to support them. Seems to me that the goals are always just an excuse, a stated reason that seems sympathetic to a group in order to not look like your whole purpose is simply to be a terrorist. The goals will always be irrelevant because even if they are all satisfied, new goals will pop up in their place. It's not as if we're going to see a day when the U.S. and al Qaeda sign a treaty ending any hostilities. The only true goal of a terrorist is to cause terror. Everything else is just an excuse.
no I mean like Afghanistan Albania Algeria American Samoa Andorra Angola Anguilla Antarctica Antigua and Barbuda Arctic Ocean Argentina Armenia Aruba Ashmore and Cartier Islands Atlantic Ocean Australia Austria Azerbaijan Bahamas, The Bahrain Baker Island Bangladesh Barbados Bassas da India Belarus Belgium Belize Benin Bermuda Bhutan Bolivia Bosnia Herzegovina Botswana Bouvet Island Brazil Britain (see United Kingdom) British Indian Ocean Territory British Virgin Islands Brunei Bulgaria Burkina Faso Burma (Myanmar) Burundi Cambodia Cameroon Canada Cape Verde Cayman Islands Central African Republic Chad Chile China Christmas Island Clipperton Island Cocos (Keeling) Islands Colombia Commonwealth, Countries of the Comoros Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Republic of the Cook Islands Coral Sea Islands Costa Rica Cote d'Ivoire Croatia Cuba Cyprus Czechia (Czech Republic) Denmark Djibouti Dominica Dominican Republic East Timor Ecuador Egypt El Salvador England (See United Kingdom) Equatorial Guinea Eritrea Estonia Ethiopia Europa Island Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) Faroe Islands Fiji Finland France French Guiana French Polynesia French Southern and Antarctic Lands Gabon Gambia, The Gaza Strip Georgia Germany Ghana Gibraltar Glorioso Islands Great Britain (see United Kingdom) Greece Greenland Grenada Guadeloupe Guam Guatemala Guernsey Guinea-Bissau Guinea Guyana Haiti Heard Island and McDonald Islands Holy See (Vatican City) Honduras Hong Kong Howland Island Hungary Iceland India Indian Ocean Indonesia Iran Iraq Ireland Israel Italy Ivory Coast (Cote d'Ivoire) Jamaica Jan Mayen Japan Jarvis Island Jersey Johnston Atoll Jordan Juan de Nova Island Kazakhstan Kenya Kingman Reef Kiribati Korea, North Korea, South Kuwait Kyrgyzstan Laos Latvia Lebanon Lesotho Liberia Libya Liechtenstein Lithuania Luxembourg Macau Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of Madagascar Malawi Malaysia Maldives Mali Malta Man, Isle of Marshall Islands Martinique Mauritania Mauritius Mayotte Mexico Micronesia, Federated States of Midway Islands Moldova Monaco Mongolia Montserrat Morocco Mozambique Myanmar (Burma Palestine (see West Bank and Gaza Strip)) Namibia Nauru Navassa Island Nepal Netherlands Antilles Netherlands New Caledonia New Zealand Nicaragua Niger Nigeria Niue Norfolk Island Northern Mariana Islands Norway Oman Pacific Ocean Pakistan Palau Palmyra Atoll Panama Papua New Guinea Paracel Islands Paraguay Peru Philippines Pitcairn Islands Poland Portugal Puerto Rico Qatar Reunion Romania Russia Rwanda Saint Helena Saint Kitts and Nevis Saint Lucia Saint Pierre and Miquelon Saint Vincent and the Grenadines Samoa San Marino Sao Tome and Principe Saudi Arabia Scotland (See United Kingdom) Senegal Serbia and Montenegro Seychelles Sierra Leone Singapore Slovakia Slovenia Solomon Islands Somalia South Africa South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands Southern Ocean Spain Spratly Islands Sri Lanka Sudan Suriname Svalbard Swaziland Sweden Switzerland Syria Taiwan Tajikistan Tanzania Thailand Togo Tokelau Tonga Trinidad and Tobago Tromelin Island Tunisia Turkey Turkmenistan Turks and Caicos Islands Tuvalu Uganda Ukraine United Arab Emirates United Kingdom United Nations Organization United States Uruguay Uzbekistan Vanuatu Venezuela Vietnam Virgin Islands Wake Island Wales (See United Kingdom) Wallis and Futuna West Bank Western Sahara (Western) Samoa Yemen Yugoslavia [see Serbia and Montenegro] Zambia Zimbabwe
To my knowledge it's not. We started in Afghanistan and fired shots across the bow if Iraq, North Korea, Syria and Iran. Then we went after Iraq. Why be obsessed with Saddam. He was trampled over like he deserved. I'm going to miss those 1300 Spanish troops in Iraq...
