Machete Attack at NYC Hannukah Event; Anti-Semitic Activity Increasing

Pardon my ignorance on this matter but the last two well know attacks on Jews in this country have been performed by black men. Is this random or is there a pattern between some black groups and Jews? What is the angst against Jews coming from?

 

Don't worry. I am sure someone here can tell us all how it's actually white people's fault.

 

Every time there is a new immigrant wave in the USA there are complaints that they will never assimilate and every time they assimilate.

Two hundred years ago it was the Scots that supposedly would not assimilate..... then it was Germans that had their loyalty to the USA questioned..... then Irish and Italians...... then Jews........ now Indians and Arabs. They all assimilate, they get swallowed up into the US culture and become assimilated.

Germans used to be reluctant to stop speaking German, and their loyalty to Germany during WWI was questioned. It took a lot of German American's dying in WWII for that idea to fade away. Italians used to not be considered white by Americans. Many Italians were in poverty in the USA and were anarchists or supported far left labor causes. Even into the 1970's there were claims that Italians were not American enough. Jews in America were viewed as putting their religion over the USA. They were labeled as only associating with other Jews and having radical opinions and being terrorists.

Mexicans were viewed as not being American....... and now their children and grandchildren in many cases do not speak Spanish at all and view themselves as Americans.

Black and White families are becoming far more common......... even the classic claim of a lack of acculturation by black Americans is disappearing.

Everyone blends in withing a generation or two. Even the uniquely American subgroups like Mormons are being thrown into the pot.

 

At least one of the attacks was by a member of a known hate group. The Black Hebrew Israelite faith. They have in general been more active in extremism the last 5-10 years. A former Packers player that is a member was recently arrested for threatening violence. I believe the sample size is too small to really represent a trend but it is worth keeping an eye on it.

As for the claims that either attack were motivated by Trump or the Democrats is absurd. The extremist Black Hebrew Israelite's are not aligned with any major political party. They believe that they are the true Jews and the imposter Jews must be removed.

 

I agree that people blend overtime. Again this isn't about whatever group one is. I agree it's universal. That's what I've been saying. But the effects are felt in earlier generations. Especially depending on the parents and their offspring. There is nothing that unusual about this concept. I thought it was well known. I think a lot of you just dislike me from past arguments and ya'll wanna make this into something bigger than it is. And yes there are complaints because some people do move to places and don't assimilate. It's unfortunate but it happens. I think many people, and perhaps yourself, has the wrong idea about this concept. Calling for people to assimilate is not a bad thing. Especially if the foreigners have odd norms. For example cultures that marry 12 year olds off to grown men or mutilate genitalia. OK, those people need to know that they are no longer in a place where that is OK. Extreme example but I think you get my point. I don't care about people not wanting to learn English, even though it would help them. I don't care about people wanting to celebrate their holiday or religion. That's more American than anything. But when people, for example, can't show up to work on time because in their culture time is flexible, they need to get with the program. Also when people want to put loyalty to their homeland before their country of citizenship, that's a problem. Or they openly display hate for Americans and constantly display hate toward that culture, it's really not OK. Many are openly bigoted against Americans or other groups around them. IE some people move from the Muslim world with an extreme hatred of Jews, or vice versa with Israelis toward Muslims. Hell Indians versus other Indians lol. You want to talk bigoted, talk to some Indians about other Indian groups.

 

I do not necessarily disagree with you. I will say this though, everything you point out has been true for every large immigration wave in the past, and every single group ends up acculturating. Does it happen over night? No it does not, and in some case it takes a generation or two..... but it happens. The concerns you express are as old as this country is.

As far as certain behaviors are concerned, we have laws and if the law is broken they are held accountable. History shows that cultural issues can be a problem at times until their is acculturation.

FWIW I grew up around a lot of immigrants and some of their parents did complain about the USA and what is and isn't allowed here. It used to bother me. I do not mind criticism when it is constructive or not pointed. However these parents only complained (mind you this was not the majority). What has happened? Their children are not in their 30's and 40's and I still keep in touch with many of them and they do not have the same hatred their parents had, indeed their children are completely acculturated.

 

Fair enough and I think most second gen do well with it. In fact rebellious youth stages usually handle it and set them on the right track. Plus they see it as good for them.

 

the point is that it is dishonest and ridiculous to claim straight line "plain and simple" causation from political ideology to violence as you did in your original statement:

This goes for Trump/white nationalism, Democrats/anti-semitism, etc etc. While there may be SOME kind of connection in SOME specific cases, it is absolutely outrageous to blame something like the machete incident on "Trump's support of White Nationalism" . . . and add "plain and simple" as the sole explanation.

 

While it may not be connected directly to the machete incident (I never claimed it did), Trump support for White Nationalism has stirred up tribalist feelings across the nation and it is leading to violence. That is clear in both antecedal as well as statistical numbers.

But let's keep in mind that immediately after the machete attack, the right jumped on Democrats - look at Bigtexxx in the very first post. Yet you did not take issue with that. So it sounds like you are ok to connect Dems with this attack immediately, but not connect Trump. Double standard?

 

mind reading?

 

Why did you stay silent on the OP but take issue with mine? And I didn't directly connect to the attack where OP did. So what's up with that?

 

lol



I promise to pick on bigtexx next time

 

I find this very curious.

 

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2019/12/lets-not-blame-democrats-for-the-wave-of-anti-semitic-attacks.php

Posted on December 30, 2019 by Paul Mirengoff in Anti-Semitism, Democrats
Let’s not blame Democrats for the wave of anti-Semitic attacks
I disagree with claims that the Democratic Party bears responsibility for recent anti-Semitic violence. There is substantial and growing anti-Israel sentiment among Democrats, especially younger ones. There are some prominent Democratic politicians who are anti-Semitic.

A Washington, D.C. Democrat blamed Jews for climate change. That moron falls outside of the Democratic mainstream. But does Ilhan Omar? Does Al Sharpton, Barack Obama’s ally? How about Maxine Waters, who has embraced Louis Farrakhan?

It should be obvious that espousing anti-Israel views doesn’t make one responsible for violence against Jews in New York. But what about espousing anti-Semitic views?

It depends on what the anti-Semite says. If the anti-Semitic speaker says that Jews control the media or that Jewish neo-conservatives led the U.S. into the war in Iraq for the purpose of benefiting Israel, he is not responsible for violence against Jews. Espousing these views, which though odious are political speech, is not an invitation to attack a rabbi and his guests with a machete. I’m confident that almost everyone who espouses them deplores such attacks.

If the anti-Semitic speaker advocates attacks on Jews, that’s obviously a different case. However, I know of no major Democrat, mainstream or not, who is urging physical violence against Jews or saying that it’s okay.

If the anti-Semitic speaker rants against Jews in ways that might reasonably be expected to induce people to attack Jews, it’s fair to assign him some responsibility for attacks. Certainly, if a preacher calls Jews the devil’s spawn and a member of his congregation shoots a Jew, the preacher must share in the blame.

However, I’m not aware of Democratic politicians or officials who are engaging in that sort of speech. ( Rep. Hank Johnson once called Jews living on the West Bank “termites,” but he apologized for using the word. In any event, that comment was no incitement to commit violence against Jews living in New York). And even if one could find such a Dem here or there, it would be unreasonable to blame the Democratic Party for anti-Semitic violence.

I agree with John that it’s normally bad practice to blame the actions of lunatics or extremists on mainstream politicians. In my view, no exception to that practice is warranted in the case of the recent New York attacks on Jews. Nor should blame attach to politicians who may be outside of the Democratic mainstream, but who stop short of speech that might reasonably incite attacks on Jews.
​

 

With over 70% of Jewish Americans voting for Clinton in 2016, it is odd to claim the Democratic Party is anti-Semitic. Indeed the last polling on Jewish voting trends showed over 75% of Jewish Americans strongly disapproved of Trump as President.

Further, Black Hebrew Israelites are certainly not supporters of Democrats either. They are and have been labeled a hate group for years.

Hell, I don’t see any Democrats inviting well established Holocaust deniers to the State of the Union. A Republican congressman did and then defended his choice when called out on it. Then there are the Soros/Bloomberg attacks where the fact they are Jews is always pointed out. That includes the conspiracy theories against Soros proven to be false that the President still tweets about. There is always Steve King as well but he is low hanging fruit.

At the end of the day, Republicans do not want to get in the middle of a “who is anti-Semitic” contest because they will lose. Hell the Holocaust deniers alone will do them in.

 

Exactly, the right doesn’t get it—they believe support of Bibi etc is equated for support of Jewish Americans. They support white supremacist groups, some of whom have neo-nazi ideology and expect to gain support. They’re pretty disconnected, all the crap they do isn’t solved by “but we support Israel”. Whenever I watch interviews about combating anti-semitism the response politicians give is support of Israel, never “were implementing such and such measures to keep synagogues and other places of worship safe”. Increased xenophobic rhetoric is not going to resonate with a group of people that has been targeted throughout history, it’s acceptance, unity and learning about one another.

 

You don't have to promise to do anything - my point is rhetorical - meant to point out the double standard

 

I dont blame the dems for this attack. Omar has not called for violence.

 

Squad Derangement Syndrome