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anyone looking at the Hornets going into the tank?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Charvo, Mar 7, 2004.

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  1. BigEasyRocket

    BigEasyRocket Member

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    I could agree with that point, however Baron has an excellent supporting cast and (until Mashburn pulled this crap) he was not considered to be the first scoring option. This situation forced him into that role.

    Trust me the situation with the Hornets has nothing to do with a "combo" guard as the franchise player. It has to do with an inept/inexperienced coach with no nuts and a malcontent small forward, period.

    His rebounding is not great, but not bad either. When healthy it's not unusual for him to avg about 20ppg, 6-7rpg, and about 2-3 apg.

    Also if any of you guys think I'm creating this out of thin air, check the Hornets fan site at www.hornetsreport.com . It's been all over the bbs for weeks (if not months).
     
    #21 BigEasyRocket, Mar 11, 2004
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    That doesn't seem to tell us much. A dominant post player can't win a championship either unless he has one of those two things as well, nor could a playmaking point guard, sweet shooting forward, etc etc etc.

    I don't like the term 'combo guard'; it's a made up term which you can alter the definition of which to incorporate any number of player or players at will. Since it can't be defined, I think debates about it are pointless.
     
    #22 SamFisher, Mar 11, 2004
  3. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Only since Isiah Thomas has a guard risen up to the challenge of being the point guard distributor and also be the primary scorer for the team and actually led the team to a championship.

    I look at the teams currently in the league with this kind of structure.

    Wizards
    Hornets
    Rockets (maybe has changed)
    Sixers (Iverson is really the distributor)
    Knicks

    Is it any wonder that 4 out of those 5 teams have had issues with that franchise combo guard being called selfish? Did anyone read about Gilbert Arenas getting criticized by Kwame Brown? Iverson has a long history, so there's no need to elaborate. Stephon Marbury? This is the guy that was traded from team to team with the stigma of selfishness tied to his name. Amare Stoudamire's mom called him out as being a ballhog. Of course, she was being crude, but she's right. Do we really need to go into Stevie Franchise?

    Baron Davis is the sole exception, but his shooting percentage bites because he is playing double duty of point guard/primary scorer. Baron Davis is also in my opinion probably the best of the group. Maybe Stephon is better.

    There is an extreme conflict of interest when a player is expect to be the primary scorer and also the primary distributor. This is why any team getting Kobe better put him at 2 guard because there will be issues if he is expected to be the primary distributor. He's a great passer, but the guy should not be the point guard. He should stick as a 2 guard.
     
    #23 Charvo, Mar 11, 2004
  4. montevideo

    montevideo Member

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    #24 montevideo, Mar 12, 2004
  5. montevideo

    montevideo Member

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    Good observation.

    Silas is very under rated.

    Floyd is STILL unproven as an NBA coach.

    One of Silas' strengths as a former player is one of Floyd's weaknesses.

    Floyd seems to allienate his players then try to communicate with them through the press - he did it at Chicago - now he's at it again in Charlotte.

    This becomes a problem for him - he may loose control of that team unless one of the players takes a leadership role.

    I thought they played very flat against Rox - very unmotivated - yeah they made a run in the 4th - but the 2nd and 3rd they seemed lifeless.
     
    #25 montevideo, Mar 12, 2004
  6. Kayman

    Kayman Contributing Member

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    I agree. Hornets have good talent, but they don't look like a team right now. No intensity, no teamwork. I don't see them in the playoffs next year.

    Look at this: Sacto, Spurs, Minny, Dallas, Lakers, Memphis will be locks again. Denver and Houston most likely as well. That's eight right there. Then you have Portland, who had a tumultuous year, but they'll be back. Too much talent on that team: SAR, Randolph, Theo R., Darius Miles, Derek A., Ruben Patterson. Add a new coach and that looks like a playoff team again. Heck they may beat Denever even this year. Then you have Phoenix and Clippers that are one Kobe Bryant away from the playoffs. Heck, if Kobe, Mailman, Glove and Zen leave, I don't see the Lakers making the playoffs, despite Sahq. So forget about the Hornets in the playoffs next year...
     
    #26 Kayman, Mar 12, 2004
  7. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=ramsay_drjack&id=1756928

    This is a good article by Jack Ramsay of ESPN. He points to the fact that Baron Davis is a shoot-first point guard as being a big problem.

    I see big problems when any point guard is EXPECTED to be the primary scorer on the team. This is why I believe Paul Silas moved Lebron James to small forward. Lebron is the primary scorer on the Cavs, but he was placed in the position of point guard at the start of the season. The Cavs got Jeff McGinnis and moved Lebron to small forward. The point guard should never be placed in a role where his shot comes first before the pass unless there is an unusual situation like with the Kings in which the big men are the primary distributors.
     
    #27 Charvo, Mar 12, 2004
  8. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Forget next year. They might not make the playoffs for a decade. Jazz has Kirilenko and Raul Lopez as a core. They will add more come the offseason. Hornets are basically tapped out as far as flexibility in able to acquire free agents.
     
    #28 Charvo, Mar 12, 2004
  9. aries323

    aries323 Member

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    He also leads the league in 3 pt. attempts, which IMO is not his strong point of his game. He needs to take it to the rack and DUNK in on someone like J. ONEAL.

    My pick for Dunk of the year.
     
    #29 aries323, Mar 12, 2004
  10. BigEasyRocket

    BigEasyRocket Member

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    That's funny as far as I can recall the Hornets are in New Orleans and the Bobcats do not begin play in Charlotte until next season. That could be the real problem, Floyd is "at it again" in Charlotte and not coaching in New Orleans.
     
    #30 BigEasyRocket, Mar 12, 2004
  11. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    I completely agree it is a chemistry issue with the Hornets. It may be Mashburn alone, or it may be that Mash and Davis when on the same court both throw that teams rutter off. You can't just blame it on Floyd. The stats on the Hornets not seeming to groove with both Mash and Davis have been healthy has been around for a while. Also, the Hornets have been one of the top 4 EC teams over the last few years, but they underperformed in the playoffs.

    Finally, I don't see any big thing with "combo" guards. Isiah and Dumars won some titles sharing roles (truest since of combo guards). Also, Kenny Smith, Steve Kerr, John Paxon, Fisher and Tony Parker, all shoot first and pass 2nd guards not in the traditional mold, have lots of rings in the last 10-15 years.

    Thus the problem isn't "combo guards" who don't fit traditional roles, the problem is undiciplined guards who have bad shot selection, those who don't take care of the ball, and those who don't have an understanding of the bread and butter plays to maximize the winning potential of their team.
     
    #31 Desert Scar, Mar 13, 2004
  12. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Anyone know the record of the Rockets since Yao became the leading scorer for the Rockets?
     
    #32 Charvo, Mar 13, 2004
  13. montevideo

    montevideo Member

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    Right - can't think why I associate Hornets with Charlotte.

    But you were right on in your above comments. I had some hope for Floyd earlier in the year - but it has not worked out well so far.
     
    #33 montevideo, Mar 14, 2004
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