Actually I have heard what you're talking about. My sister lived in China for a while to teach English. She was warned to be careful of what she said in her room because it was thought the government might be tapping the rooms of the foreign teachers.
Just some minor information to offer since I was there at the time (as a high school graduate). The famous photo was shot at least one day after June 4th, the army tank apparently did not intend to run over this guy since the whole thing was over by then, and the government did not want any new situation developing. The state media actually ran a video of this guy blocking the tanks and showed that the tank tried to get around the guy but he stubbornly stayed in front. It was probably shown to give the impression that the army was kind to its people. The place where this happened was not Tiananmen square either. It is several miles west on a street that is a major road towards the square. The government's position to this day is that no one died *in the Tiananmen square while the army escorted the students out*. Overall the government maintains that about 300+ people died in the whole conflict. All of them happened outside the square. So far no one was able to debunk the government's claim. Anthony
Every liberal in the Eighties whined about how we could co-exist with the Communists and how that "cowboy" Ronald Reagan was going to start WWIII by provocating them. You can't refute that.
I'm a liberal who was in his 30's during the 80's and I didn't believe that. I thought then and I think now that the idea of Reagan being responsible for the fall of the Soviet Union is a brilliant piece of fiction put out by his admirers. Reagan was responsible for tripling the national debt and much else I didn't like... Iran-Contra, etc.. And there were parts of his military buildup I agreed with and parts I thought were pure pork-barrel. I thought adding the 2 refurbished Iowa-class battleships was a great idea, for example. I think they should still be in service. But the country would have been much better off without Ronnie. I think I just refuted.
The photo of the guy on the tank was not just a photo. There is actual video of it as it happened... Or is my memory totally tricking me?
I think you're correct. I remember it as being video taped. I also don't buy our friend ynote's description of how it happened. Sorry, ynote. You could be right, but it's not what I remember.
You were a rare liberal, because most in the leadership of the Democratic Party whined that tune that Reagan was going to start WWIII. No one man was more responsible for scaring the Soviets into the reality that there was no way in hell they could compete with us militarily or technology-wise. They knew that unlike Carter, Reagan was not going to make silly deals with them. He meant what he said and said what he meant. When he joked that the bombing was going to start in five minutes, it scarred them. Especially after being used to a p***y like Carter smooching Brezhnev. I was proud to be under the command of a real warrior who gave us what we needed to be successful. Actually, there were 4 Iowa class battleships. America would have been much better off without people like: -Jimmy Carter -Teddy Kennedy -Pat Schroeder -Tom Foley -Walter Mondale -Robert Byrd -George Mitchell -Frank Church (the one man most responsible for 9/11. His Salem witch trials against the intel community did more to destroy our ability to gather intel than anything.) -John Kerry There are a cast of thousands, but I think I've made my point. All of these people sought to weaken our defenses in the name of "unilateral disarmament." They were a fifth column unwittingly helping the cause of Soviet domination. They were what Lenin called "useful idiots."
You are right. It was videotaped. The same video tape was actually ran by the state media like I mentioned. However I believe someone also took a conventional photograph, because I've seen this picture in a much high resoluation (than video) somewhere else. Deckard: which part did you not buy? I didn't state any person opinion on what happened. I merely described what went on at the time. I've seen a documentary directed by an American woman called "Tiananmen" which seems to be very impartial and objective. The director interviewed a lot of the people involved including figured from both sides and she seems to think that the government's claim while misleading, was not technically lying.
It was nothing directed at you, I just have a fuzzy memory of the timeline of events (and it was an amazing series of events!) and I don't recall that happening the way you described it. It doesn't mean you're wrong. I just don't remember it that way. It's horrible how the movement was crushed, but I guess not too surprising considering the track record of the Chinese government. Someday, I'm sure there will be a reckoning of some kind.
