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anyone looking at the Hornets going into the tank?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Charvo, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    That's what you get when you pay over 25% of the salary cap to a combo guard who is expected to be the primary scorer. Hornets will be fighting it out for the 8th spot with teams like the Jazz, Blazers, and Nuggets when they enter the Western Conference next year. Combo guard led teams don't work in the Western Conference.
     
  2. tozai

    tozai Member

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    Combo guard teams don't work, Period, unless you've got a supporting cast w/ Laimbeer, Rodman, etc.
     
  3. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    If you feel the need to bash Steve, you can go ahead and do it in the main forum...there's really no need to use Baron Davis as a cover up...
     
  4. pacertom

    pacertom Member

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    having an adequate coach is important.

    case 1: Hornets now
    case 2: improvement in the Cavaliers under Silas
    case 3: Pacers now vs. Pacers last year
     
  5. KellyDwyer

    KellyDwyer Member

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    So glad to see a real coach in Indy now, albeit three years too late.

    Imagine Carlisle and Miller ... sigh.
     
  6. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    my thoughts exactly.
     
  7. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    This is not a bash Steve thread. I'm just pointing out a team that is supposedly the most successful combo guard-led team in the NBA doing horribly.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I don't understand your point, the Hornets play in the East. They're tanking this year so why are you criticizing combo guards in the West.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I don't know if you've read too many of Charvo's posts, but I'd say he's got a 75% steve bash ratio in there.


    This is one of my favorites:
    http://bbs2.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73536
     
    #9 SamFisher, Mar 8, 2004
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2004
  10. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    It's OK, Charvo. Steve bashing is not only accepted these days, it's actually encouraged. You've been putting up that same exact post in GARM repeatedly for weeks now.

    So, what exactly is a "combo guard" and why do you dislike them so much? Is it a point guard that scores a lot of points? Stockton averaged 17 points a game over a three year stretch when he was younger. Gary Payton has averaged 20 points/game for the past decade now. Sam Cassell is averaging 20 per game and the T-Wolves seem to be doing all right. Mike Bibby is averaging 18 per game this season. Is he a "combo guard"?
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You know, I have asked the combo guard question a bunch but nobody ever answers. Just in case Charvo answers, I'd also like opinions on the following players as to whether or not they are combo guards:

    1. Kenny Smith
    2. Isiah Thomas
    3. Magic Johnson
    4. Michael Jordan
    5. Vinnie Johnson
    6. Ron Harper
    7. Hal Greer
    8. Nate Archibald
    9. Calvin Murphy
    10. Nick Van Exel
    11. Michael Adams
    12. Kevin Johnson
    13. Lafayette Lever.


    and why or why not?
     
  12. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I believe combo guards judging by the players being called combo guards are scoring point guards who have the dribble penetration as their primary method of getting points, have low shooting percentages, and are shoot-first pass-second point guards. Combo guards by themselves are not the issue. It's when a franchise FINANCIALLY chooses a combo guard to be the player who is asked to lead the team to a championship. When a franchise makes this kind of decision like what Phoenix and New Orleans did, it sets back the franchise for many years. Phoenix realized the follies of their ways, so they shipped Marbury off to New York. Hornets will eventually realize this too, but it's going to take some time. Colangelo is a proactive owner who watches almost every Suns game. He knows what's up. Even the Wizards' management is having 2nd thoughts about signing Arenas to that large contract.

    I've been saying for a while that the myth of the combo guard-led team will by shown as a tragically flawed team. Give it a couple of more years. Most NBA GMs will agree with me by then.
     
  13. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    A combo guard is a point guard who is looking for his shot first before his teammates. Gary used to be like that, but he changed into an assist man late in his Sonics career. Stockton was always looking to pass first before getting his points. Sam Cassell and Bibby are arguably similar to 2 guards in that they have big men that are the passers while they just shoot. They are not being asked to be the distributors. Arenas was criticized by his teammate Kwame for not dishing out the ball enough. Kwame is right.
     
  14. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Let me say that Steve Francis is transitioning to a distributing point guard and away from his prior combo guard mentality.
     
  15. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

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    Also, Steve totally kicked Davis' ass in that RBK commercial!

    He was all like, "That ain't NUTHIN'!"

    BOOOOOOM! Wrecked the whole court!
     
  16. AstroRocket

    AstroRocket Member

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    Damn straight.
     
  17. BigEasyRocket

    BigEasyRocket Member

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    The Hornets implosion is the result of several factors the two greatest being Floyd's lack of coaching experience/ inabality to take control of the team and Jamal Mashburn becoming somewhat of a malcontent/cancer this season. Let me explain from the begenning.

    First: the Hornets choose to hire Floyd (bad choice). From that moment forward Mashburn made no real secert of his dislike of the hire and the fact that he would not buy into Floyd's "system"

    Second: Mashburn goes out injured for the first 44 games and chooses to rehab in exclusively Flordia, thus cutting all contact with the team. He never attended any team meetings, pratices, or games during this time. In fact he went so far as to not attend the game the Hornets played in Miami, during his rehab period. This caused quite a bit of harsh feelings amongst the Hornets players toward Mashburn. In fact several of the players (most notably Armstrong) even went so far as to call out Mashburn in the media and question his dedication to the team. By the time Mash did finally come back he the situation had become so bad he (Mash) refused to play anything that resembled team ball or attempt to make amends with the upset members of the team. Floyd sees this and does not have enough nuts to step in and rectify the problem, thus he looses what little respect any of the players ever had for him as a coach.

    Third: This lack of respect for Floyd as a coach culminates in company man Baron Davis blowing off a meeting and getting benched. Following the same game it is announced that Mashburn has ( I believe lied) re-injured his knee and will be out for another three weeks.

    So that brings us to a point where we have

    A team with no respect for their coach (and rightfully so)

    A player (Mashburn) who is not only at odds with the coach but most of the team (Baron Davis included) and looking to force a trade in the off season.

    Another player (Baron Davis) who is the team captain but at odds with and has no respect for the coach.

    Add it all up and you have one hell of a problem, which is what you see now. The only way to solve this is fire Floyd and trade Mashburn, neither of which will happen before the offseason (if then).
     
  18. BigEasyRocket

    BigEasyRocket Member

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    Just to sum it up ( I tried to edit the last message to no avail)

    Mashburn has been disrupting the team all year by trying to force a trade. When he did not get what he wanted things got even worse. Floyd then lost all respect of the team when he could/would not step in and attempt to rectify the problem. In the process Floyd lost the ear of the team captain (Davis) thus the team as a whole. Now you have a team where the two best players are at odds with the head coach and each other. This equates to automatic implosion.

    By the way if the Rockets were/are ever intrested in Mashburn i bet they could get him cheap in the off season, however I dobut VanGundy is that stupid.
     
  19. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    I like it when people do their homework instead of just pulling crap out of their butts and posting it here.
     
  20. tozai

    tozai Member

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    I think the point is combo guards as franchise players don't lead teams to championships. As secondary players to a big man, or with an excellent supporting cast, they can, however.

    I like Mashburn's game alot. Didn't know that was going on in NO. I think he'd be a good pick-up as a SF with some post-up skills. Don't really remember his rebounding being anything special.
     

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