The problem is Clemons is 5'9 and we play a switch all defense. Those will never go together, and that's the single reason he doesn't get minutes. Rockets would have to change their entire defensive scheme to play him. We did that for CP3 some times, but Clemons is a rook.
All true. I guess Clemons has proven to be very serviceable but if one of your only hopes is an undersized Clemons and Gordon who does not have fun. Well, good luck with that.
Well...the Rockets are going to have to survive until EG comes back because Morey's hands are tied up due to our cheap ass owner.
Clemons is only 5'9'', but he's built like a tank. He weighs more than CP3 does. He is a rookie, admittedly, but it's not like McLemore is a great defender at all anyway. Would like to see his minutes reduced.
He seems to be thinking too much. Everytime he hesitates a bit then jacks up a three, you know it's not going to go in. When he catches and shoots with confidence it at least has a small chance of going in. It's disappointing how his shooting seems to have regressed majorly even from last year which was a career low for him. On his layups too he seems to be looking for contact rather than just going up and trying to take the rim off. It's too bad cause I can see the pathway towards him being a contributing member of the team.
Single player +/-, is not “horrible”, whatsoever. It’s simply not perfect. Holy **** the guy is losing when on the court. It’s not rocket science. He is bad so far on both ends. At every facet(We SUCK in transition, we rank bottom 5, last year we were elite PPP but just didn’t do it half as much). He simply plays a lot so our best lineups will obviously be used with him, when loading him next to better players like Capela, Tuck, House, and Harden. Our WORST lineups all involve him by far as well. There’s a way to see everything. But so far there is no way to see West brook as good. Just no way. Man you guys are really cult-level delusional. Like political extremists delusional. Nothing you said here makes actually confronts the fact that Westbrook has been miserable by the eye test and by all stats(+/-, boxscore, player tracking). Westbrook does NOT have intangibles. Chris Paul does. Westbrook does not make positive winning plays that don’t show up in the boxscore, Chris Paul does. Westbrook’s strengths are always easily gonna appear In the boxscore. You know this is true and you don’t need me to say it. Also, mentioning young high-potential players for some reason is funny. Westbrook is not that at all. He’s the exact opposite. Old and getting worse by year if not by game. And Westbrook is still fast, but he’s not as quick, he’s not as explosive off the ground. He’s definitely not the athlete he used to be. He is so reliant on athleticism that slight dips in his athleticism are making him massively worse, to the point now where he’s a net negative. Westbrook is worse than Chris Paul was scorer, defender, passer, and leader. There’s nothing there for him to be better. That’s the entire game. He’s a -1.1 on offense and a -2.2 on defense by RAPTOR, since single player +/- is so bad.
It's a terrible stat to judge a player by, yes, it is. It ignores all context like if a guy is playing with a scrubby 2nd unit that can only score 2 points in a half. You're the delusional one, where were all those game-winning intangibles last year when Harden needed ANYONE to show up and help him get past Golden state last year? Westbrook may not be the perfect fit but we are acting like Chris Paul and Harden had a future dynasty here or something and you are talking up the duo as if it is Jordan and Pippen. Again, the fact is you can still trade Westbrook, you can't trade Chris Paul. The Thunder have tried, no one wants that contract for a reason. He's so valuable and so good of a player to you, why does OKC have such of an issue getting rid of it? Not sure where you're seeing or quantifying his loss of athleticism. There a stat for that too? From what I see he's still faster than every guy on the court and can still leap out of the building. Chris Paul the better leader? Funny, because people that play with Chris Paul usually don't have much good to say about him. That's he's annoying more than anything. Meanwhile ex players for Westbrook never say anything bad about him at all. Again, Westbrook has been on teams that have had better playoff success than CP3. Outside of ONE year here when we almost beat the Warriors, CP3 has been a playoff underachiever. This seems to contrast with your point about him just being simply a winner. Chris Paul was a great player but you're mystifying him into something greater than he was. I see that he's a total 1.1 or something for that stat? I'm not so sure about a stat that has Giannis so low and Mike Conley over Durant and Capela being an equal player to Siakam 2019 season...point is, there isn't a stat that tells you with perfect clarity...THIS PLAYER IS PLAYING THIS WELL! If there was, no team would ever make a bad trade. How about we give Westbrook an entire year to judge and compare?
The reality is we haven’t lost a single game to a team that on schedule should be a win we’re taking care of business against mediocre to bad teams, that’s good. we’ve let two games one against the bucks and one against the clippers that we could have won. Never say should because those are toss up games against contenders. Denver and Miami were let downs I was not pleased same with Dallas. are schedule is pretty easy for the next 20 games outside of Miami and maybe one or two other teams. we can run up our record and maybe be in 1st Place come January. Lakers schedule has been really easy so far they will start playing better teams soon. They will start to drop some soon I’m sure. I’m not worried about our team tbh because having Gordon is going to help rotations with harden and Russ and also allow harden to operate better even tho he’s been great. It’ll be hard to trap harden at half court when no screen is being set when Gordon is out there have to imagine he’ll hit his threes and attack the basket. some of our losers have been by a lot but outside of the Miami game we have had a chance to win all those games. Even the Dallas game with how bad we started out we had it down to 5 in the 4th. So we’re fighting and getting back in games which is a great sign. our schedule hasn’t been hard but it hasn’t been easy either it’s been right in the middle imo. I see no reason why we can’t go 17-3 over the next 20 games and be sitting at 28 and 9 which should be right there for tops in the west. After the lakers with 2 losses were just a loss back of 2nd place. met need to get healthy and realize what russ doesn’t ring which is energy and attacking the basket while also pushing the pace which is cool because it’s not what harden does besides attacking the basket. we wouldn’t be better with cp3 I really believe that. Russ has shown he will get 20+ a night and to me that was the main issue with cp3 last year. He just had to many games were he had 6-8 points. That’s just not going to cut it imo. Russ also needs to adapt and take way less threes. Only threes he should take our catch and shoot wide open threes. Anytime he takes a dribble he needs to attack or pass.
New coach, system and teammates. I think he will come around. I trust Harden and him to figure out how to handle the double teams
I see some real signs of our team being way more dynamic and having a higher ceiling than with Paul. I’ve seen more off ball movement and cutting , more willingness to take midrange shots that add variance to our offense and stop teams from keying in on our previously linear strategy I also see confusion that I expected because it WILL take time to fully gel. I’m more worried about our lack of quality backup 4/5 than I am WB.
The poll doesn't have my choice. I am not happy with him. I don't think he is "solid." But I wouldn't say we absolutely won't win a championship with him. It depends on what kind of role players we have, and if Harden can carry us despite the negatives.
His contract will stop that, and we added an additional year of a declining player - this move was NOT a Morey move. DD
Yeah, but it all started with the CP3 trade. Once CP fell off the cliff with that untradeable contract, we were pretty much doomed. Getting CP3 (with the subsequent contract attached) is giving up your future for a window of about 2 seasons. Once that CP3 window closed, Westbrook is just a prolonging of the window (for about one season by my estimation) with a longer mortgage.
They can’t score because of him...does this need to be said? Is there ANY scenario where Harden is on absolutely trash offensive lineup? Is there any scenario where he can create good looks for everyone and himself? No. And +/- always has and always will represent realities like that. Westbrook’s lineups are trash because he is trash. All evidence points to this. LITERALLY all of it. Don’t misrepresent what I said. Or even say things I didn’t say. I didn’t GUARANTEE Chris Paul’s ability to call out defensive rotation and run offensive sets that work best with particular personnel will win any one game, or literally every game he plays. Holy ****. This is like talking to a cult member. I’m saying he HAS those things, and they ALWAYS add value to him and always have, so for you to say players are more than box score stats, when Paul is the epitome of a better-than-stats guy and Westbrook has always been worse than his stats, is DUMB. What are you talking about? Quote one time I’ve even compared Harden/Paul as a duo to ANY players on any thread. Definitely hasn’t happened in this one. Again, DELUSIONAL. Im directly comparing Westbrook and Paul. Perceptions? Salary matches around the NBA? Teams of need? Paul’s personal choices in the matter? OKC waiting for the season to unfold until the ASB? What does any of that have to do with Westbrook being empirically worse than Chris Paul as a scorer, passer, defender and intellect? Why is everything an absolute situation for you? It’s either one thing or the exact opposite? Just because Westbrook is a worse athlete than when he was say 26 doesn’t mean he isn’t still faster than most players. But at the same time you need to realize we are talking about him. No one else. And I really doubt you have watched much Westbrook pre-Houston. The only guys quick were below 6 ft and maybe peak Jordan. Westbrook’s dunks per year are less than half of what they use to be. So is his free throw rate. You literally don’t have one opinion that isn’t casually approved by the media and fans. Plenty of players on this very team, and the Clippers like Chris Paul a lot. He is still friendly with damn near all of them. The obvious Harden, Griffin, and like....Glenn Davis are the only ones I can even think of not liking him. Griffin more or less didn’t like him. There wasn’t dislike necessarily. They were professional about it for years. My definition of leading are literally leading proper ideas and fundamentals on both ends which help improve lineups, and clearly adds to his value as a player. Chris Paul does that like no one other than LeBron. .....no, it doesn’t, AT ALL. Again why is everything absolute? Chris Paul’s teams lost in the second round several times...and he’s a loser? Do you not realize Westbrook has more team success than harden by your standard? More than THAT, do you not realize Westbrook had back to back terrible playoff series in 1st round knockouts? Something Chris Paul has never done ever? Chris Paul’s TEAMS underachieved in about 2 series. Injuries and very difficult competition derailed them in others. So...since again there is no perfect statistic, you ignore all of them. Do you see where delusion comes in. You aren’t that dumb. But your judgement is trash right now. Westbrook is a -3.3 by raptor. We have to ask ourselves how inaccurate could this stat possibly be? And why would a stats mild inaccuracy(because it’s actually pretty damn accurate with the best players, some guys just don’t rate out extremely high, but they are still rated as very good. KD and Giannis.) — invalidate a CLEAR TREND? Meaning, why would I assume a more accurate stat(and by the way, point to one stat that puts Westbrook even in CP3 league)would take Westbrook from atrocious to good? I literally cannot find a statistic that supports Westbrook being a good player anymore. I’d have to be a delusional stan to use literally no evidence to have a strong opinion about something that leaves so much information behind.
I don't disagree with you but on this one point, McHale was losing to the Thunder and Blazers, not the prime Warriors. I have to hold the Chris Paul injury and 27 missed 3's in a row against the team, not against MDA. A lot of those shots were open. Wide open. Scarred forever.
Yes, there are lineups that don't do well with Harden. P. Tucker, .E. Gordon, .J. Harden, .C. Capela, .D. House Jr. has a -22 net rating for instance so far this season. Right, you're saying he has those things...I'm saying he does not have those things. Where was all that game winning intangibles at last season? Who said you were lol? I'm saying how you are talking up the duo as if breaking them up was impossible. Look at your post, you act like we won a championship with that duo when the window was closed shut last year and yet here we are with this revisionist history as if more than half of the board didn't want to trade CP3. You are not discussing reality here. It's been reported by pretty solid sources that OKC tried to trade CP3 this offseason and that the plan was never to keep him on the roster...yes, they are waiting for the season to unfold because they literally have no choice but hope some team gets desperate enough to make a move for him. No, YOU said that his athleticism has made him worse this year, that's a pretty definite statement. Is it not? Westbrooks dunks per year are less because he has to play off the ball and they clog the lane. He doesn't have free reign of the offense and as such has to tone down his level of play at times. I didn't talk about CP3s friendly manner, I'm sure he's friendly with most players but again, when you have guys talking about how CP3 is a bit annoying to play with I wonder about his leadership... Either way, his leadership is not worth the contract, especially when his leadership never regined over Harden's. To compare him to Lebron... You really think Lebron would EVER play 2nd fiddle to Harden? Ever? That Harden would ever get in Lebron's face and tell him to move out of the way because he can't get past his man? Lebron, no matter the team he goes on, is the unquestioned leader of that team. That's a leader. CP3 is a leader because of his BBIQ...morale leader...yeah, can't say that. Why do I care about if Westbrook has more team success than Harden? Is it true? That's good then. Yes, things are absolute for me, I never called CP3 a loser, I said that he has had some very disappointing playoff losses. Injuries is not an excuse either especially when we are talking about the VALUE of a player in regards to his contract. I didn't ignore the stat my man I said you can't use one stat and act like this stat is the stat to determine the final value of a player. Westbrook's RAPTOR has never been high, even in his MVP year, even still you are taking a stat in such a small sample size. Doing this would mean Eric Gordon is a terrible player. We know he is not. That's why I said maybe you should wait until the season is over. Me, personally, I remember the bad of CP3 as well as the good. He was oft hurt, at any moment he could pull his hammy. He could no longer break down defenses with any consistency, and he is at that age where the cliff is right there, if he hasn't hit it already...and once he hits that his contract becomes an absolute franchise killer. The Rockets got from under that contract and you are fooling yourself if you think he's more tradeable than Westbrook is at this moment. For this reason alone it was a good trade. Not that I think the Rockets will trade him, but if things go awry they can at least hit the big red button and eject from this.
