2019 Hong Kong Protest

It was naive to think UK could do whatever it wants on the HK issue. Based on Convention for the Extension of Hong Kong Territory, 92% of the HK territory would be reverted to China with the expiry of the lease -- without which HK would cease to be viable. The treaty ruled out the legitimacy of HK independence and that was adopted by a UN resolution in 1972.

From wiki:
"In the last years of the 1970s into the early 1980s, the question of Hong Kong sovereignty emerged on Hong Kong's political scene as the end of the New Territories lease was approaching. Hong Kong and Macau were both removed from the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories, in which territories on the list would have the right to be independent, on 2 November 1972 by request of the People's Republic of China (PRC)."

From UN yearbook 1972:
"The Special Committee adopted a recommendation, embodied in its report to the General Assembly, that Hong Kong and Macao and dependencies be excluded from the list of territories to which the Declaration on the granting of independence was applicable. ... The Committee adopted its recommendation on the basis of a proposal by its Working Group, which had received a letter dated 8 March 1972 from China stating that Hong Kong and Macao were part of Chinese territory occupied by the British and Portuguese authorities. The settlement of the questions involved, the letter had stated, was entirely within China's sovereign right. Consequently, they should not be included in a list of colonial territories covered by the Declaration on the granting of independence."

"General Assembly resolution 2908(XXVII) was adopted by a roll-call vote of 99 to 5"

 

I do hope the Xi leadership is going to be down by this movement, finally CCP is going to down too sometime soon, but if you are saying that Hong Kong should be ruled by UK, not China, and you are just a cheap yellow skin animal. Hong Kong is the part of China before CCP ruling, your family can move to UK or USA if you do not like the Hong Kong future, no one forces you and your family to live in Hong Kong, welcome to USA, your cheap family.

 

I am well aware of all of that. The UK made the decision to honor the treaty. I am well of aware of how the UK took Hong Kong and I am not and never have defended the actions of England 100 years ago.

 

i don’t believe I ever said that those in Hong Kong that support the CCP is a small or marginalized group. I hope I did not give that impression. There are those that have profited from the CCP and those that want self determination. Hence why it is so highly contested. There is a very clear divide.

Also there is no doubt that historically Britain wasn’t some sort of perfect “parent” to Hong Kong. However people in Hong Kong also have had some liberties that many are afraid they will lose.

I cannot speak for everyone in Hong Kong. I only have my observations when visiting and what my family and friends have told me. The vast majority of them do not want to be under the rule of the CCP and in general do not like the mainland.

Also of course occupation of Hong Kong would cause retaliation from the CCP at this point. Further I don’t expect Trump or the USA to occupy Hong Kong. That was a decision that should have been made when Hong Kong was returned to China.

As far as the CCP portraying the protests as being foreign driven, of course they do. That is CCP policy to blame a foreign interest.

At the end of the day I have a lot of empathy for those native to Hong Kong. They were occupied by the UK (a foreign entity) and then many years later have been given to another entity (China) and the people of Hong Kong are stuck in the middle. I wish they would have the right to self determination but that isn’t going to happen.

US foreign policy in large part is destructive and negative. The CCP is an abomination and everyone else is stuck in the middle.

My family is personally afraid of the CCP and what the consequences of the protests will be. My sister in law said that they have the means to leave financially and go to the USA or UK but that they were told they would not be allowed to leave.

 

The UK and the USA actually voted against the 1972 UN resolution so claiming that the UK intended to honor the treaty is also incorrect. Despite of that, the resolution received a majority support from UN member states (99 in favor, 5 against, 23 abstained) so it was passed.

From UN yearbook 1972:
"Subsequently, on 14 December 1972, the United Kingdom informed the Secretary-General that in view of the Assembly's approval of the report of the Special Committee, no useful purpose would be served by continuing to transmit information on Hong Kong under Article 73e of the Charter. The United Kingdom also stated that the action of the General Assembly in no way affected the legal status of Hong Kong. Its views on that status were well known and it was unable to accept any differing views which had been or might be expressed by other Governments." (Note: here, "other Governments" include China)

 

i am aware of that.

It was still the decision of the UK to give up control over Hong Kong.

 

We can go back and forth all we want on this HK issue, one thing is very clear that we must agree wholeheartedly on: never to lay trust on a Commie b*stard. Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. I suggest you guys start brushing your communism history by reading this book:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Black_Book_of_Communism.
I think those of you who are fair minded will know exactly where the blame lies after reading this book and understand the mindset of a communist. Some of you will argue that the ChiCom is some sort of a hybrid government and no longer a true communist state, believe me at the core, they are still very much one party, one ideology and everyone must conform or you will see shiet like this happening in HK.

 

China is basically ending Hong Kong’s sovereignty as we speak. Taiwan has to be watching and knowing they’re next.

 

I haven't seen opinion polls done on HK regarding pro-Hong Kong or pro-PRC but it wouldn't surprise me if it was much closer than many think. One of the ironies regarding PRC intervention in HK politics is that if they had let them have truly contested elections as laid out in the treaty it's possible pro-PRC candidates win anyway. My point though is that we have to acknowledge the complexity of the situation and if there is any hope of peace in HK there has to be something that acknowledges the desire of HK to maintain it's unique nature including individual rights and the ability to elect it's own leaders while still being part of the PRC. To me that is the only compromise that could work but more importantly that is what was promised in the treaty and the basic law.

Foreign intervention doesn't have to get to occupation level. If the US or another power were to provide aid to HK protesters, train HK protesters, send in personnel to act as peace keepers, pretty much anything above the level of diplomatic scorn and sanctions I have no doubt that would send the PLA into HK. Even the impression that these protest might be foreign driven could lead to the PLA acting.

I hear you. I'm working on ways to get my family out. I'm not going to discuss those publicly but bringing them to the US is going to be very difficult because out State Dept. is a mess and xenophobia from on top.

 

The situations are related but not similar. HK never had its own sovereignty as it went from UK to PRC. What's happening in HK isn't so much the PRC suddenly asserting authority but a long buildup of grievances starting pretty much from the handover. Also HK's economy is much closer tied to the PRC than Taiwan. Besides that other than Kinmen island Taiwan is still relatively far from the mainland. THere are land connections into HK and it would be relatively easy for the PLA to roll into HK. The PRC isn't yet to the point of having an air sea force that could easily invade Taiwan. Unlike HK the US has and can arm Taiwan and still has a treaty in place to do so incase the PRC invades.

What matters though is less the possibility of the PRC taking over Taiwan by force (militarily or economically) but that they have held out HK as being a model of how Taiwan could rejoin. If things don't go well in HK Taiwan will never willingly rejoin.

This is why I keep on saying if the CCP ever wants to see a unified China that contains HK and Taiwan it cannot happen under centralized control of Beijing. The Xi regime authoritarian desire will make it harder to keep a peaceful HK and Taiwan a pipe dream.

 

More than 1000 and counting arrested in the Polytechnic University battle. Thousands wounded. Morale in HK hit the lowest point.

 

the lowest point was a man being set on fire and another being killed by the bricks threw by the 'freedom' terrorists

 

Wait I thought they swore to die fighting to make it a "massacre", now they hide in their mommy and daddy's arms? Revolution my *** ****ing scum·bags.

 

They sure learnt a thing or two from those knife wielding pro Beijing communists who have been stabbing people for years.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...ng-judges-slammed-chinas-top-legislative-body

Hong Kong courts ruled anti mask law unconstitutional, Beijing says it doesn’t have the authority and threatens to overrule it.

 

Around 200 people were arrested and injured in the stampede in Kowloon last night. All of them are charged with riot and could face 10 years in jail. About 100 protestors, first aiders and students are still trapped in Poly U. Another 600 people were arrested and they will probably be charged with riot too.

 

The United States senate just unanimously passed a bill to interference China's internal affairs. I am not sure what is the use of it. More like a gesture, or bargain chip under the circumstance of the trade war.

A more sensible bill will be granting those HK freedom fighters US green card, or at minimum, asylum status so they are able to move to land of the free. Since those freedom fighter already showed great love for the United States, i.e. waving US flag while singing US national anthem, they will make great US citizens, let them contribute here rather than HK. This way, everyone is happy and problem solved.

 

China needs to honor the agreement they made with the UK, too bad they're weak and dealing with their own internal issues.