sorry for the repost but on this quote: I'm quite content with whatever decision Dream makes. I made peace with my thoughts on the matter in his last game. If you weren't there, you probably wouldn't understand. Actually I was, and I always am at thier game, so I would understand ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
Timing- Outside of Houston Barkley will be remembered as a great as player as Dream. Alot of folks still say Dreams titles should have been astericked because of no MJ. Look at articles about the greatest centers of all time (not including articles from Rocket fans or Houston writers) and you'll see Wilt, Russell, Kareem & now Shaq. My point isn't that Barkley is better than Dream, he isn't simply because Dream was a great defensive player and he did win 2 Championships, but outside of Houston most folks would say Barkly was as good as Dream. And yeah CB did some unusual things off the court, but you know what most poeple still likes the guy. Hakeems biggest problem is alot of folks don't know him. Some of it may be his broken english but he doesn't have the personality of sir charles (not many do). Other parts of it had to do with Charles being more marketable and having more of his games on TV. So take it any ways you want but when it comes time to go to the HOF, they will both be there. They are both forever remembered in the NBAs top 50. Dream was a better player, but Charles will be remembered much longer by a bigger audience. Dream is king of Houston but CB had the audience of the country.
both have class , i just think olajuwon doesnt talk with as much freedom as barkley. i dont know if that makes barkley classless , but just because olajuwon is looking at all his options doesnt make him classless. and i think its rather stupid to think so. ------------------ http://www.democrats.com mgh 1924-2001
Toronto never had Marion. He was drafted by Phoenix. ------------------ One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
The recent events with Dream has really lowered my respect for him. I think Houston management and fans have given him a lot. Everyone in the city would love to see him back...but not for $10 million. With his injury history and age, he's not going to be able to play a full season. Like an earlier poster said he's jeopardizing the Rockets' future to line his own pockets. Sad...I know it happens everywhere in the NBA, NFL, MLB; I just thought the Dream was different. ------------------
Whoa there kid. Dream never spit on a little girl, never threw a dude through a window, and never threw an elbow in the Olympics. Dream's contract posturing has nothing to do with class. This is a business issue, not a class issue. ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.
Umm, I wouldn't use Dreams on court behavior as a comparison of class to Barkley. When he was younger he was laying guys out with blatant punches. Bark didn't try to spit on a little girl, he missed the unruly fan that was near her and later apologized. The guy he put through a window was asking for it by throwing ice cubes at him. Saying Hakeem has more class than Barkley is a matter of opinion. I happen to think that the guy who sacrificed to try to help his team get better is the better man, but that is only an opinion as well. ------------------ You can't stick a porcupine in a barn, light it on fire, and expect to get licorice.
Of course it's a matter of opinion but the things I stated are fact. Charles Barkley is also one of the most selfish basketball players ever to play the game. An opinion shared by many including MJ who is one of his best friends. It's always amazed me how Rockets fans have become such big Barkley supporters. He never did anything here but talk a lot, piss off teammates, and throw up a 3 pointer a game. Why is it when a team cuts someone, it's a "business decision" but when a player tries to get more money it's a class issue or a who's the better man issue? Business decisions go both ways in sports. Dream has every right to shop himself just like the Rockets have the right to refuse his contract requests. ------------------ The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.
4Chuckie, Let me ask you a ?. Was the the WSJ Writer who said Hakeem was the BEST PLAYER of all time a Rockets fan. Dr. Jack Ramsay also has repeatedly said Hakeem is a top 5 Center of All-Time To not include Hakeem after all his accomplishments as a top 5 Center of all time is flat out ignorant. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
"Think back to the Laker series when Charles played great while Shaq dominated Dream and Kobe tore into Pip." -Absolutely ridiculous!...Wow, Barkley played "Great" against JR friggin Reid while 37 year old Hakeem had to contend with the best Center in the League in his prime. What a shocker that Barkley had a better series. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
"I remember him flagrantly fouling Hakeem in Game 7 of the 94 Semifinals with time expiring. I remember how gutless he was with series on the line not only for Houston but against Houston" -I remember that too. I was ready to kill Barkley watching that CRAP. The game was over and he hit Hakeem smack in the midsection. Hakeem could easily have been injured on the play and there would be zero titles for the Rockets. Barkley was a sore loser. "An opinion shared by many including MJ who is one of his best friends" -Exactly. MJ has many times said that Barkley lacked the work ethic and that is why he had 0 rings. "I'll tell you what I remember about Barkley. I remember him getting dominated by Karla Malone in the Western Finals. I remember Rudy at pivotal moments going to Barkley against Utah, out of some sense of loyalty/respect to him, only to get destroyed by Karla. " -Absolutely. "My point isn't that Barkley is better than Dream, he isn't simply because Dream was a great defensive player and he did win 2 Championships, but outside of Houston most folks would say Barkly was as good as Dream." -No offense Chuckie. I like Barkley myself. He was awesome in his prime, is entertaining, and did play hard for Houston and didn't cause much trouble. But this statement by you is ridiculous. Even if you totally ignore the 2 championships by Hakeem (which is flat out silly, a title is a title) any TRUE knowledgable b-ball fan knows Hakeem was by far the better player. Hakeem dominated both ends of the court. He's without a doubt the 2nd best player in the entire decade of the 1990's. Hakeem's playoff #'s compared to Barkley's playoff #'s are a gross mismatch. You can go ahead and knock his selfish attitude if you wish, but please, let's be realistic. To even compare Charles as an overall bball player to Hakeem is just silly. I was watching TNT's inside the NBA 2 days ago and Charles himself admitted that Hakeem was the best player in the NBA in 94 and 95 and that's why his Suns lost 2 Houston 2 straight years, despite having MUCH more talent and firepower than Houston. "Other parts of it had to do with Charles being more marketable and having more of his games on TV." -Exactly. Barkley was a great self promoter. Meanwhile, Hakeem was turning down deals with Nike because he didn't want kids getting shot over a shoe that he sponsored. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
Cato=Bum: Look at recent articles I don't have time to find the link (but it's been in the last week) but a recent article has Shaq being compared to Wilt, Russell, & Kareem, no mention of Dream. Some do put Dream in the top class many others exclude him. Again as a Houston fan you see him in the top class (and maybe even as the top of the class), but there are others who don't. Also say what you want about how CB4 matched up vs the Lakers but I remember Willis matching up better agains Shaq when he was in the game that series, just because of his brute strength vs Shaq. ALso in a different game I rember Kobe being hurt and Shaq-CB4 getting tossed. Dream should have dominated the game and didn't. That was Vs. John Salley. Talking about flagrant fouls, don't you remember Dream's temper early in his career. I think the temper is from frustration. Barkley was frustrated to lose. Dream really mellowed out after his second championship. Barkley still got frustrated because he never got to the championship, which is the truth. Honestly I would love to see a national poll as who was the second best player of the decade behind MJ. I think it would be alot closer than what most expect. As a matter of fact I think Nationally Karla would have a good chance of winning just because of his good play for so long (longevity).
Also say what you want about how CB4 matched up vs the Lakers but I remember Willis matching up better agains Shaq when he was in the game that series, just because of his brute strength vs Shaq. Willis didn't play for the Rockets that year.
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! HAKEEM IS A GREEDY, CRAZY-ASS, WEIRDO!!! He talks about wanting to win, yet won't sign for what he's really worth. He isn't worth more than 1 mill, because he's a huge liability. He's been injured every year since he started to suck four years ago. What the hell is he thinking? Barkley is more classy that Clyde, Hakeem, Jordon...you name em. He was honest and in his spare time he was nice to people. I love Dream, but I also am well aware that the man is insane. He doesn't care about winning at all. It isn't really about class, it's about GIANT MENTAL PROBLEMS!!! [This message has been edited by fromobile (edited May 24, 2001).]
Personally I am not suprised or angered by Dream. Come on, when he hired an agent, did we really think he was going to stay for a bargain price? I love him, he is Houston, but if he leaves, it should not tarnish his image too much, I think his play over the last four years has done enough. For all my Chuck lovers: How about this DREAM, Chuck decides he is in great health, but Mike decides not to come back. Webber signs here, and Charles says, I want to play with my favorite coach and I'll back up C-Webb. Wow I would be in heaven. ------------------ A Chuck paraphrase: It was surreal! And I don't even know what that means! Charles after Eddie hit THE SHOT
Why should we blame athletes for not wanting to take less than what they are used to. The NBA is a job and like all jobs you want to earn as much as money as you can. Personally, if I had to choose between $4.5 million and $10 million, I would choose the latter because Im human. By the way, he would be cutting his contract down $6 million. Isnt it possible for Houston to sign all its free agents, Hakeem, and then still have a little bit more money to go after a complimentary player in the FA such as Antonio Davis or Marc Jackson? ------------------ "I would like to live forever, because we should not live forever, because if we were ever supposed to live forever, then we would live forever, but we cannot live forever, which is why I would not live forever." -Miss Alabama in the 1994 Miss Universe contest
A millionaire is a millionare. For such a philisophically minded person like Hakeem, who has turned down large contracts in the past and who praised Sir Charles for his honor in signing down, you would think he would think the same way. The bottom line is he doesn't really want to stay in Houston, but he doesn't want to get the heat for admitting he wants to leave. Simple solution is to expect more money than the Rockets can give. Timing, you are weak. I love Dream more than you do most likely. I've practically memorized his book. It's like holy scripture to me. On close examination of all Hakeem evidence, one must conclude that the man is insane. His public image is not who he is. Dane B, I'm glad you aren't on the Rockets. ------------------
"Again as a Houston fan you see him in the top class (and maybe even as the top of the class), but there are others who don't." -I guess Dr. Jack Ramsay, who most consider one of the most astute, objective observers of the NBA is a "Houston fan" because he said in a recent article Hakeem is most definitely one of the top 5 Centers of all time. He also said Hakeem's series in 95 vs. SA was the best playoff series in NBA history. Ramsay's just a Rockets homer though, right? "Honestly I would love to see a national poll as who was the second best player of the decade behind MJ. I think it would be alot closer than what most expect. As a matter of fact I think Nationally Karla would have a good chance of winning just because of his good play for so long (longevity). " -And your point is?...Is a player's brilliance measured through on court achievements or Polls on Friggin NBA.Com. Last week, 60 % of the NBA fans on NBA.com predicted Shane Battier will be the #1 pick. Any intelligent B-Ball fan knows there's no chance in hell Battier goes #1. You don't measure a player's worth based on a poll. That just measures his popluarity. Incidentally, I would take CB4 in his prime over the Failman. The Failman was GOOD for many years. But CB4 was GREAT for a period of 3-4 years in PHI and PHO. The Failman was never at any point a GREAT player. IMO, if Barkley had a stud PG like Stockton his whole career, he'd have won a ring or 2. Failman always choked when it counted. We both know that. It's just too bad Houston fans didn't get to see Charles in his prime. ------------------ Get Cato out of there...
I agree with Dane B. If you had a chance to make 6 or 7 million dollars, why would you settle for 1 million? It's not like he's desperate to win a title, and why should he be? He already has more than most players in the league. Charles took less money because he didn't have a ring, Hakeem has two. Stop looking at this from a pissed off fan's perspective, and start seeing through Dream's eyes. Why should he settle for less than what he can make? Being rich doesn't lower the value of money. There is a big difference between 7 million and 1 million. ------------------ The Protrolls.com message boards! Protrolls.com! Home of Turn, Tweak, and all your demented favorites!
So you're saying Dream cares about the money more than winning? If I was making 16+ million for the last 5 years or so, I wouldn't care about 6 million dollars. If he's not desperate for a title, then he can go away. You know who else fits the mold of a guy that doesn't care about a championship, but enjoys stealing money from his boss? Kelvin Cato I can't believe you'd actually want Dream on this team if you think he doesn't care about winning a championship. ------------------ "Empire" had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father, Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All "Jedi" had was a bunch of Muppets.
