This is not a "bench Steve" thread. Rather, I want to discuss the non-basketball ramifications of benching him. Please take two assumptions as givens to avoid getting into the much-debated question of whether Steve has a place on this team: 1. Yao is the best scoring option and the offense should run through him. 2. Steve deliberately ignores Yao sometimes to the team's detriment. Even given those two facts, would benching him be a good idea? There are some very good reason not to do so: 1. It would reduce his trade value. 2. It would be forcing him out - benching a proud guy like Steve would probably burn the bridge. 3. Despite all his problems, you've still got a very good player earning the max sitting on the bench in that scenario. 4. It might be the last straw for his confidence - he's already on the ropes, this might ruin his effectiveness. Yet at the same time, if you buy the assumptions... not benching him undermines the coaches position and allows the inmates to run the asylum. If Steve can get away with flouting JVG's direction... then the coach has lost his power. I don't think, ultimately, you can bench him. Francis has considerable value, both as a player and as a commodity. I think that, even if it hurts the team a bit in the short run to some extent, they have to wait until at least the summer when they can trade him for value. That's just too much value to risk losing it for little. Thoughts?
i don't think you do it base on his performance tonight. i thought he was okay, borderline solid. jackson gets victimized by quicker guards. but 4 assists in only 5 minutes tonight. you can't do it... you have to play your best five players.
especially this close to the end of the season. If you want to try out this experiement, this isnt the right time to do it since the plaoffs are around the corner.
Now that's just not true. Hypothetically, let's say it wasn't Steve that walked away from Yao on 4 straight possessions... but your 5th best player. You don't question that he's your 5th best player... but he ignores your best player who's been hot on 4 consecutive possessions and made bad decisions. Do you bench him? Hell yeah. It's not saying "you suck" but rather "if you don't play the way I want you to, you won't play at all." I'm just not sure you can do it with Steve.
then the question goes inot, is steve really affective deffering to someone? This season really answered that question.
It's hard to play with a PG whose instinct to shoot first and pass later. He's trying to adjust to that mentality, that's why he messed up his shots. Bottomline, he ain't fitting into the system and is in need of replacement. Rox need someone that is pure and simple...someone that look to pass first and shoot second...a la Stockton type. Jason Kidd is the man...and if Nets are dismantled from Playoffs, Rox should pursuit him in a trade.
no i agree with you 100%, but out team athleticism is already pretty low... taking him out would make it worse. dude haven normally i'm 100% with you man... you stuck behind yao even when he was putting up stinkers earlier this season.
I dont know about benching SF3 either.. for some reason the offense seems worse without SF3 in there. I think its because we dont have a good enough backup PG yet. MJax is a poor backup, great passer but he cant shoot or defend and that makes him a liability.. If we had someone like Cward or RStrick I think JVG would feel more comfortable sitting him if needed. anyways our backup PG's are horrible actually our whole bench is pretty weak they would be an NBDL team if the Rox didnt sign them (ok cept MoT and Pike). J
Yes, the ball didn't go into Yao for 4 straight possessions, the reshow the game at 2am and watch the 4th quarter. Shaq played incredible D on Yao throughout the 4th, he had Yao pushed way out from the basket. Yao can hit an open 8 foot jumper, but it's not feasible to give Yao the ball that far out, and with his back to the basket. I do agree that Yao should have atleast touched the ball everytime, but (I hate to say it) Shaq was able to keep Yao too far from the basket in the 4th.
Oh, and to answer your question: No, its not feasible to bench Steve. He still holds this team together, and a drastic move like that this late in the season would be stupid.
Thanks, I was about to call you out for the off-topic response . Ok, let me ask a follow up question: Would benching Steve become feasible at any point. Is there a threshold? I know that this hypo isn't likely at all... but what if it did happen: Steve decides that his lack of production this year is directly a result of him dominating the ball less. He decides... screw what Van Gundy says, I know I'm an all-star. He's polite to JVG... smiles and nods... but then goes out and dominates the ball like he has in years past. He ignores the post on almost every possession, treats Yao like he would Kelvin Cato (good for dunks, nothing else), and shoots 20+ shots every game. Would you bench him then? If you would, what would be your magic line that he'd have to cross?
you don't bench him for one reason... because he's steve francis. just because he does diddly-crap on the floor (as of late) he still commands a schitload of attention from opponents making it easier for yao, cat, motay, and everybody else to operate on the floor. his presence helps. so you're going to bench steve, put mark jackson in the game, and have cato in the game at the same time? as if the rox aren't offensively challenged enough. everybody, including yao, would get double/triple teamed everytime they received the ball with defenders lagging off of mj and cato.
As others have pointed out, the biggest problem with benching Steve is that the alternative is just so much worse. That's why a trade is in order in the off season. The Rockets just don't need a PG who also happens to need a lot of shot. We need a PG who's good at shooting the 3 and has some decent passing ability, a Kenny Smith/Matt Maloney type(although hopefully better). There's just a hell of a lot more incentive for a PG to pass to the post player if his production depends on it. So if we bring up a spot-up shooter as a PG, JVG wouldn't have to tell him to pass the ball to Yao or the best option available. The PG will do so automatically. This can't happen with Steve, because his production isn't fed off of other players. He has to be the main option on the play to score most of the time.
Argh. You guys aren't getting the thread. The question isn't whether the Rockets are better of with or without Francis on the court. They are, obviously. Only real nuts deny that part. They're a better team with Steve than without him. However, the question is whether at some point discipline becomes more important... because otherwise, the coach becomes meaningless. If benching isn't a deterrent because it's unrealistic... then the coach has little influence over plays that don'st listen. If you think that it's worth JVG losing some influence... fine. In fact, I actually agree with you. But you're not making the same judgment I'm making, if you're just saying that the Rockets are a better team when Steve's on the court.
I thought Stevie played very well up until 4 minutes into the 4th quarter after he stopped going to Yao who was on fire. Prior to that he was throwing nice alley-oops to Cato, making the right decisions and was already on 10 assist at the time, but failed to gain another one thereafter. I had a bad feeling once Stevie started to smile and laugh at this very moment thinking the game was pretty much in the bag, and its time for someone else to take over. You could almost sense that some of the players wanted to be the Hero. Well, as we all know, the Lakers went on a 13-0 run and Yao was totally ignored as our plays during that stretch ran on the opposite side of where he was, thus making the need for him to set up positions pretty much useless. So apart from his 4th quarter mental lapse, he generally played well. but this kind of mental lapse will cost you games against good teams, and sometimes, even the bad ones. -G'day-
JVG benching Steve is unrealistic because it doesn't make the team better. Regardless of what you think he may or may not be doing in regards to getting Yao the ball, JVG can't simply bench him because of that because it would drastically hurt our team, no matter how bad he's playing right now. That's the answer to your question, I just don't think you like it.
Okay, I'll preface this by saying, "No, it's not feasible to bench Steve." Further, I don't WANT the Rockets to bench Steve. Now that that's out of the way ... IF you wanted to bench Steve, what do you do? Play Mark Jackson longer? Uh, no. Steve's big problem this year is NOT ignoring Yao and it's NOT court vision. It's his SHOOTING SLUMP. So if you're suggesting we bench Steve for Jackson, you've made a bad problem worse. I have more faith in slumping Steve's jumper than Mark Jackson's "shot." So another option would be to take Jim Jackson and move him to the point. Then what do you do, start MoT at the 3? Boki? Padgett? A Griffin? It becomes a question of, "Who do you want more on the floor - Steve or one of those guys?" I'd take Steve's minutes over Boki or Padgett or A. Griffin's anyday. In a heartbeat. But you wanna bench Steve because he ignores Yao? Again, I disagree. Yao's been getting plenty of touches on the offensive end. Just because he doesn't shoot doesn't mean he doesn't touch.
