Why would you ever want Samaki Walker and Eddie Jones for Mobley and Cato. Mobley and Cato have more than proven themselves as important contributors to this team. Mobley can do everything Jones can do, except better in some areas. He is a better shooter AND defender in my eyes. He also has a pretty descent post up game; he knows how to use his body against mis-matches. Plus, Mobley is younger AND has a WAAAY better contract. And as for Cato and Walker, need I say anything? To me, Walker is garbage... Cato has busted his A$$ this season, and to trade him for Walker? Thats ridiculous. He comes in and does what is needed. trade declined dude. sorry
How about Steve Francis, Boki Nachbar, and Maurice Taylor for Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, and others to make the contract work... I would definately like to see that! Maybe we can get Brent Barry too... that would be nice =)
It looks to me like this thread has come down to Ray vs. Hinrich in a deal for Steve. Some other considerations for both: Ray Allen - To say he is a "role" player is nuts. The guy is a multiple Olympian/All-Star and he is currently averaging 23.5 PPG, which is top 10. He is a legit 2nd star to pair with Yao, and is equally worth SFrancis in pure talent. He is one of the smoothest, most consistent shooters in the NBA, and he is unselfish. However, he is a SG, and that would mean another deal for a PG to replace Steve would also have to be made. That would most likely involve Cato/Mobley, but a guy like ESnow could be had for Mobley (Philly guy, only if AI leaves too). Kirk Hinrich - A true PG, meaning he can run the show without having to make another deal, a definite plus. Advantages over Steve - outside shooting, youth, defensive intensity, PG vision. Disadvantages - Experience, speed, penetration, size. Overall, I would definitely take a Chandler/Hinrich package for Steve. But this is about Ray vs. Kirk, and in the end, I still do the Allen deal first. Here's why: Ray is undoubtedly an established NBA star who can immediately step in to lead this team, along with Yao. Hinrich is still just a rookie, and trying to integrate a young PG in the Western playoffs could set us back another year or two. If getting Ray and a reliable, veteran PG can be done for Francis and Mobley, then do it. I consider it an equal deal talentwise, and more importantly, the offensive direction provided by guys like Ray and Snow could make us much more dangerous immediately. Our offense could be run through Yao, with JJ and Ray camped outside so that when the double comes... Well, lets just say I'm envisioning the future, and it could be beautiful. I don't think anyone can say that about watching the team's offense now.
I like what Ray Allen can do but I would prefer Chandler and Hinrich because it would lock up 3 positions for the next decade with out gutting the team. Ray Allen is in his prime now but what happens in a few years when this team is ready to seriously contend for a title and Ray is on the back side of his career.
After the whole Griffen debacle, I'm pretty scared of Chandler. Sure, if he works out, this is a championship contender for the next 5-10 years. But if he doesn't, we're left with Yao and Hinrich. Which means one star and one great role player. Now unless Yao is the next Duncan, the Rockets will probably be a 50 win team that exits in the 2nd round for the next 5-10 years. With Allen, you get a sure thing. I'm more inclined to take the sure thing, as long as we can solve our PG dilemma.
Unlike the other baby bull, Eddie Curry, Chandler is known as a very hard worker and has the work ethic to become a better player. The problem is that he is already having injury problems with his back which is very disconcerning at his age.
Mobley does play pretty good D and has very long arms for a guy his size, but still he is still an undersized SG that is lacking a good court sense. Jones' game brings valuable exprience and would fit the system very well and he can neutralize any elite SG's in the league. Walker is just a throw-in. Please read carefully that I also suggested the Heat's 1st round draft pick this year in return. It's a fair trade for getting a high draft pick and playoff exprience in return.
It's not like Ray is slicing through the defenses and hammering it down. The thing that makes him such a great fit for our team is his super pure shooting and his excellent jumper. He is one of few players that can get 20ppg off of long-range and mid-range shooting alone. He is also not a stranger to passing the ball effectively, I believe he averaged 5 assists in one season and has always been one of the best passers in the league among non-PG's. Hell, he could be a better passer than Steve. I can see us netting a PG easily with our 6.9M exception, or part of it. Jeff McInnis will be an FA, Jamaal Tinsley will be an FA, Gary Payton may be an FA, Brent Barry, Charlie Ward, Nick Van Exel... Some players who may be on the block include Damon Stoudamire, Kevin Ollie, Eric Snow, Penny Hardaway... Point being, there's no better compliment to Yao Ming than Ray Allen, except for Rashard Lewis maybe. We shouldn't pass up an opportunity like this.
If Seattle is really looking to deal Allen because they want to save money then why not Mobley and the TE for him? There isn't a better player to be had for $6 million a season than Mobley, he would fill Allen's spot, and they save a lot of cash. Obviously that would make this trade dependent on whether or not Seattle truly is in a penny-penching mode, but if they are then not a lot of teams could give up both talent and take on significant cash. If that could go down then we could still do Francis for Hinrich, Chandler, and some trash. Hinrich Allen JJ Chandler Yao Come on guys, if you're gonna dream then dream big!
Crash, you say that Chandler and Hinrich will lock up 3 positions for the next decade. I say you dont know that! Hinrich looks to be solid, but we dont know enough yet. Chandler? Looks great sometimes, looks crappy at others. Potential! There is that "p" word again, the same word we had for Nachbar and Griffin. Are we tired of WAITING? How about now? I say the only "potential" we should be worried about is Yao Ming. We don't ned potential save for Yao Ming. What we need is CONSISTANCY. The kind of consistancy that an experienced All Star can bring us. Ray Allen will last in this league for a long time because of his shooting. In 5 years perhaps he will be like JJ, a solid rotation player. But then we will have cap room to go after another top flight player. If Yao Ming is as good as we think he will be, then getting a top flight SG/PG/SF shouldn't be that hard. You think players would want to play with Garnett or Duncan? You bet! We are not in the position like Utah where we need draft picks/young players traded to us because we would be a less desirable place for a FA to come to. if Yao Ming develops like we believe we will get our pick of the good ones. And in the meantime, Allen paired with Yao moves us forward NOW, not in a few years. This team has waited LONG ENOUGH on potential, it is time to reap the rewards NOW!
From todays Insider 2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT% 54 11.5 3.4 6.2 .395 .786 Rookie surprise: Either LeBron James or Carmelo Anthony will walk away with Rookie of the Year honors in a few months, but who would've guessed their closest competition at this point would be Bulls point guard Kirk Hinrich? Hinrich's game has slowly evolved to the point coach Scott Skiles now believes the rookie point is the best player on the entire team. Hinrich's post All-Star numbers are impressive. He's averaging 16.7 ppg, 7.5 apg, 5.8 rpg and shooting 47 percent from downtown, including his first triple-double Saturday night against the Warriors. Hinrich becomes the first member of the draft class of 2003 to accomplish that. For all those under the illusion that the Bulls would trade Hinrich for Francis read carefully: THE BULLS WILL NOT TRADE HINRICH FOR FRANCIS. RETURN TO REALITY.
Yes they would straight up, but it's doubtful they'd give us Chandler too. This would probably work though: Francis 6.9M exception for Hinrich Chandler Eddie Robinson Their choice of Jerome Williams or Antonio Davis But I wouldn't make that deal myself. Seattle don't want to save money, it's just that Allen's not agreeing to a deal because he doesn't see Seattle going anywhere. My God, I keep thinking about the possibilities having Yao and Allen on the same team, it's absolutely amazing. Better yet, maybe we could bring hometown product Rashard Lewis here somehow. Steve Francis for Luke Ridnour and Rashard Lewis would be nice too.
Interesting call, I like Mobley would don't want to see him go but this would be for Ray Allen who is just another caliber of player. Of course it not only depends on Seattle wanting to go cheap but us wanting to spend, fat chance. Hinrich is doing well but these statements are crazy on 2 fronts. A) Wade is far an away the best rookie guard and clearly the #3 overall rookie. He has had a better year than Hinrich and is leading his team to the playoffs while Hinrich's is the worst in the league. B) Francis is another level of talent than Hinrich. When SF was Hinrich's age (SF's 2nd year) he put up a 20-7-7 season on 45% shooting, 40% from downtown. Hinrich's best mini-stretch of games does not rival that. Hinrich looks to be a solid bet for a good role player, but he does not have superstar talent and probably not star talent. It would take a lot more than Hinrich to land a talent like SF--though Hinrich plus a Chicago's #1 or Chandler would seem reasonable. c) Now Francis for Wade--that is a lot closer in value, but given the Heats improvement (while the Bulls still suck), he is much closer to the untradable list than Hinrich (unless Wade was part of a Kobe deal or something).
We would be absolutely foolish to trade Francis for Wade. Wade is Steve Francis a few years ago. In fact, Francis had better assist and TO numbers. What can Wade do that Francis can't? I agree with your other points though. Wade is a better GUARD than Hinrich, however, I'd rather have Hinrich one my team.
Francis CAN NOT direct a team. Crap can't you guys see that. He's clueless. Jim Jackson call [layers into postion and he's your freaking SF. Stop with the stats and watch a game. Hinrich has a brain in his head. Francis doesn't. Again RETURN TO REALITY.
I have often thought of the Bulls as a potential trade partner. He'd work with Skiles, I think. But I don't know if Tyson Chandler is the answer. How is his back? And since he can't shoot, I really doubt that we would want him. If we still have Mo at the 4 (probable, considering the grotesque contract we handed him), then we would need to upgrade the 3. JVG said before the season that he considers the 2 and the 3 basically interchangeable but I believe from reading his comments this season that he knows our team is too small at the 1-2-3 spots, too slow at the 4 (Cato) and that we need more shooters. I would look into how much truth there was behind the Iverson and the Detroit rumors. It is possible in any case that any trade we make will involve a third team. Remember the Chauncey Billups nonsense? Well, since they acquired Rasheed, Larry Brown has had a real problem with Mehmut Okur, who, of course, doesn't want to come off the bench. If Okur would allow a sign-and-trade to Seattle (in order to get the money he wants), would we send Steve to Detroit, Boki to Seattle, with Okur going to Seattle and us getting Billups and Rashard? Then Seattle could move Radmanovic to permanent 3 and Okur could be the 4 and they'd be set, while we'd have consistent outside shooting to free up Yao in the middle. As long as Okur goes for the deal. ONE of Detroit's big men will have to go, and if Rashard re-signs, they wouldn't want to lose Okur for nothing. Or we could trade for Steve to Philly, send Iverson to Seattle (next-to-last in team value in the league) and Ray Allen here? (Of course, Seattle could just send Ray for Iverson and keep us out of it.) Could you parlay Steve-Iverson-Brand to Houston? My main deal is that we need a shooter and we don't need to pay max to a point guard that isn't working out. Hinrich I'd love, but I think a major part of the decision is, You gotta get back an All-Star or a potential All-Star or someone who would fit the team real well and maybe help sell tickets.
this reminds me of the line in the wizard of oz where dorothy asks the scarecrow: what would you do with a brain if you had one?
Guys, I would do either trade in a heartbeat, SF/Allen or SF/Chandler+Hinrich. But chance is neither is going to happen! Why would any team take on SF's contract after his pathetic performance this whole year? Not unless we take their sh!tty contracts. And forget about Lewis. Allen and Lewis are the best two players on that sonics team and there is no way they will gave them up for SF, a proven 2nd tier star without leadership and any further potential! Maybe SF fit other teams better, and I sure hope GM's see it that way to take SF over from us.
