http://www.sacbee.com/sports/news/sports02_20010513.html But gone Where? New York, Houston, Orlando, etc...... ------------------
Clutch beat you to it in the NBA Dish forum. Here's a thought. I apologize for posting another whacked-out, dreamcast scenario, but consider this: let's say Sacramento isn't satisfied with what NY can offer them for Webber, either directly or via a team like Detroit. Might we be able to entice them with cap space, KT, and Mooch? Obviously, the key hit to plausibility is Mooch since he's a free agent and would have to go via a S&T. No one wants to give up Mooch either, but to me, it sounds really plausible for Sacramento. Granted, they could just let Webber walk, take his cap space and hope to nab someone. But with this scenario, they'd get a capable backup PF in KT, who's dirt cheap and could do a worse job starting for awhile than many others, and a backup PG in Mooch, who Adelman can trust not to f*ck things up in the 4th and could even possibly make J-Will expendable, if not now, later on. Both are inexpensive, save cap, could be sufficient stop-gaps to immediate problems, and are good long-term as part of a rotation. No one, least of all myself, wants to see Mooch go, and I like KT. Doing this would seriously hurt our depth at PF and PG, but it almost seems like there has to be something in a trade that we really, really don't like to make it realistic. What do you guys think? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Relativist (edited May 13, 2001).]
Oops My bad. Apparently this is a duplicate post and in the wrong forum. My apologies, still learning the proper etiquette for this site. If this thread can be deleted, please do so. ------------------
A few thoughts: 1) If the Kings are going to deal Webber in a S&T, do you think they might try to move Williams in the same deal to get rid of him? 2) When Webber bolts, might the Kings be tempted to put Stoijakovic and Turkgolu at the forward positions, thus providing for two deadly perimeter threats and confusion for announcers across the NBA? 3) Or, what about starting Pollard at the PF position? ------------------ Charles Barkely on the Raptors defeating the Knicks in Round 1 :"I think it was the Lord. The Lord was with the Raptors. You know the Knicks like to talk so much about religion, but I think the Lord was a Raptor fan."
Relativist I believe that Sac will be able to do better than KT and Mooch in a S&T for Webber. I know I'm dreamcasting, but I think Houston will try to move up in the draft by sending Cato, #13 & #22 to New Jersey for Van Horn and #6. The Pro of this move is that I think Van Horn would be quite attractive to SAC in a S&T for Webber. The Con of this move is that since Van Horn is a BYC player, he would eat into some of our cap, thus reducing the threat of signing Webber straight up. Once again, my apologies for the duplicate thread. ------------------
Don't worry about it, Bay Rock. I'm actually glad you posted the article in this forum because I wanted to talk about Roster Moves, as you can see from my post. It can be tricky deciding which forum is more appropriate for what information, and this article certainly has relevance to both forums. ------------------
another con to a kvh trade is the turnaround time to do the other deal. ------------------ women love me, fish fear me.
Bay Rock, Sacramento certainly can do better than Mooch & KT for Webber. My point is if Sacramento doesn't like what NY, others offer for Webber, (a real possibility since Allan Houston won't go to Sacramento, nor do the Kings want him) they might be enticed by the offer of Mooch & KT, since it allows them to keep most of the cap space available with the loss of Webber. According to RealGM, Sacramento's player salaries will be under the cap next year with a total of $41.8 million without Webber on the books. Sacramento could very well still remain under the cap even with the addition of KT and Mooch. I'm not exactly sure how it works and I could be overemphasizing its importance, but that would allow the Kings to avoid the luxury tax, which is something to consider. Since Van Gundy at least is not interested in moving Marcus Camby, what can New York offer the Kings that they'd be interested in? A three-way, of course, is very possible, but a lot of factors have to click for that to work, one being Allan Houston agreeing to a S&T to the team(s) involved. I think the scenario I propose could actually be something the Kings would consider, given the right situation. And I too would like to see some deal made with New Jersey this summer if it invites the possibility of unloading Cato and/or picking up the #6. Van Horn would fit well with the Rockets, but I wouldn't want to give up too much for him. Your trade, of course, does not require that. ------------------
--------------------------------------- "another con to a kvh trade is the turnaround time to do the other deal." ---------------------------------------- Achebe - Actually, turnaround time will not be an issue. Given that Houston will be under the cap, they will be able to trade KVH immediately if they so desire. See #78 of Larry Coons' CBA FAQ http://www.members.home.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm ------------------
Relativist The cap is expected to be in the neighborhood of $42million next year, so Sac at $41.8 without Webber on the books leaves very little cap. I'm guessing that SAC will be more interested in getting value in return for Webber as oppose to conserving cap space. I don't think the luxury tax will kick in until the team reaches a salary in the neighborhood of $52 million. ------------------
How about trying to send Cato plus one of our number ones to SAC for Webber in a sign and trade and use the extra money to sign Marc Jackson and Dream. Then draft the best available player with our other one or two first round draft picks. Jackson/Dream/Collier Webber/KT Langhi/Bull/Draft Pick Mobley/Draft Pick Francis/Mooche ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited May 13, 2001).]
Damn, Bay Rock mentions a version of a trade I've posted for weeks and gets a bite. Me? The invisible man. Isn't KVH from California? As someone who attended Utah, you know he could tolerate Sacramento, easy. And it's probably a better fit for them than anything New York can dream up. But I think Shandon might go in such a trade: Shandon + Cato and our draft picks for KVH and #6. I'm just going by what Oeilpere has hinted. Jersey needs depth and a 5 and a 2. Why not send KVH to Chicago? The Bulls have interest in him, according to today's Chicago Tribune. ------------------
Do you honestly think Langhi is gonna start next season? Lets be realistic. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
I heard in an article that Webber might insist that Williams comes with him. That sucks. but let's disregard that. That Van Horn trade is unbeleivably perfect for everyone, don't u think? Lose cato, Shandon, 2 picks, get back #6 and Webber? BRING IT ON! I seriously think it's possible. But just one thing, New jersey doesn't need a three. I remember that 2 weeks or so before the regulkar seaso ended, Kittles had been training and said that, if the Nets were in contention, he could play, but there was no reason to risk it. So basicaly, he's already ready for next season. So, if Shandon goes there, it's as a 3, not a 2. That would be an awfully small team. Marbury, Kittles, Shandon, K-Mart? i dunno.....but it works for them. KVH is having problems with Marbury, s this would be a great deal. *Sacramento sends: Webber Jabbari Smith gets: KVH 2 2nd rounders (Houston's and NJ's) *Houston sends: Cato Shandon 2 mid/late first rounders 2nd rounder Gets: Webber #6 pick *New Jersey sends: KVH #6 pick 2nd rounder Gets: Shandon Cato 2 late/mid first round picks Sure, we get more out of the trade, but ALL teams do better than they otherwise would. Everyone wins, but Houston just wins bigger. I think that we can pickup Eddie Griffin, Shane Battier, or RICHARD JEFFERSON. If not, then obviously someone exceptional slipped a few places, we pick him up, trade him for the 3 we want. If only Rudy could read this... ------------------
Okay, for what it's worth, I agree, Roxtia, that you posted the New Jersey, Van Horn, Shandon, Cato, #6 idea first. I know my idea's not that great, and I tried to address its weaknesses, and I don't mean to diss anyone for their ideas, but what makes you guys think this NJ idea is at all balanced? What has Oeilpere said exactly? As far as I know, he's mentioned Chicago being interested in Shandon, and New Jersey as a possibility for the Rockets to trade up in the lottery. I've defended to Kagy why NJ might have some interest in a Cato/Shandon for Van Horn swap. But the way you guys are viewing it, it seems as if New Jersey wants Shandon and Cato so much that they're willing to give up their draft pick, and then throw in Van Horn to dump his salary and make the deal work. Sorry, I agree New Jersey wants to get rid of Van Horn, that they might have interest in Shandon and/or Cato, but Van Horn's not Big Country. Van Horn's got value, and is not just a mere cap-eater. Shandon and Cato might be steps-up for NJ, but they're not the end-all solutions to their roster line-ups. Why in the world would New Jersey give up both Van Horn AND their #6 draft pick for Shandon and Cato? Let's be realistic. Three draft picks are nice, but the only one with significant value is the #13. Unless I hear otherwise, I refuse to believe the #13, #18 and #22 are going to cut it to get the #6. Consider also that this is five roster spots for two. I may not be giving this idea enough credit, but I really feel you guys aren't giving much to NJ at all. Hey, I'll be thrilled to be wrong, though. ------------------
Relativist, I'm not here to ruffle any feathers. That was just some good-natured whining on my part. Oeilpere has hinted at Jersey and mentioned the possibility of Shandon and Jersey, "more on this later." He hasn't posted about it since; maybe keeping secret info secret? Since it meshed with an idea I've had awhile, I jumped on it. Few trades ever actually go down, but it's one worth looking at. Sending Shandon to Jersey means KVH; but who do you add in the mix? I think teams have wanted Cato awhile now. Just a guess. Hakeem stepped up at about the trade deadline; Cato was full BYC; a trade could not happen at that time. I still think he's lazy and oh-too-rich. But he has value. Most centers are overpaid anyway. Shandon has more value than many here give credit. But he's better at the 2 than the 3, IMO. At a "reasonable" price, a team would want him. I have thought that Cato, Shandon, and KT (or) a later draft pick might do the trick. KVH is a bad fit with Marbury. But he might fare well on the Kings in place of Webber. It's not exact value, but he's not a bad replacement, and KVH has years left on his contract...not to mention, as someone who played at Utah, I'm sure Sacramento would be no problem for him. Chicago is also desperate for a star. KVH would be the 3/4 that Fizer never was. And he might even be worth that high draft pick, or future considerations. Either way, we open cap space. (I assume we don't keep KVH if we get him because we can re-sign Mo and draft a SF if Webber falls through.) It makes some sense, as Jersey has no depth, but would Shandon go to Jersey? That's the big question, I suppose. Trading our draft picks for Jersey's is another question. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ROXTXIA (edited May 14, 2001).]
Lets see Shandon will be gone and that leaves Langhi, Bull and Walt on the roster. Who do you want to start out of those three? You can have the non defensive playing, bad back Bullard or the streak shooting, no defense playing Wizard if you want but I would start Langhi over those two no question. Langhi is easily the most athletic and the most capable of playing a full game out of those three. ------------------
I don't understand why the Rockets would want Van Horn if they can get Webber. Van Horn is not that athletic and he demands alot of shots. Letting S.A. go and drafing a SF and letting him develope would be the best thing to do. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
Lil Francis, The idea isn't to get Keith Van Horn, at least not for me, it's that I think Van Horn can be "got" and traded for Webber (a good fit for the Kings, as he is under contract for awhile and can play 4/3) if Webber would like to help his old team not implode when he leaves; or KVH to the Bulls (for their pick? or future considerations?) ------------------
Lil Francis I agree with Roxtxia, however, I do believe that Van Horn would be a nice consolation prize if Webber decided to go elsewhere. ------------------
