So you are telling me that younger voters are so pretty that they will not go vote because the House did not impeach? So the fact that the young voters think democracy is in peril will be ignored because he is not impeached? If young voters need impeachment proceedings to go out and vote what does that say about them and how can you then argue about protecting democracy? If voters take there ball any go home because they did not get there symbolic impeachment proceedings we deserve 4 more years of Trump. Can you answer the question of how he would be held accountable by the House? What restrictions can they apply to Trump.
It says they want a system that does what it is supposed to do. When a president deserves impeachment and there is evidence of impeachment, but the party decides not to impeach out of fear, then they might well be disillusioned.
I understand your opinion but it’s pretty obvious to me that you are not able to see others point of view so nay.
Hilarious! Obama actually tracked Russia, warned about it, and punished them for what they did. Obama's retaliatory sanctions are part of the reason Russia's economy stinks. Obama did the right thing. He went into it with an open mind and chance for improved relations. Saw that Russia wasn't going to be a good partner in improved negotiations and dealt with them. Sadly Trump let them off the hook and continues to do so.
So the disillusionment with not impeaching will be greater than the need to vote out Trump? How does that make any sense? Think about you are saying, a largely symbolic act of impeaching Trump is more important than voting Trump out. I hope that is not true of it is we are ****ed.
i understand wanting to impeach Trump and have no issues with that sentiment I have no issue with it but my problem is with the reasoning and what some are saying can be accomplished. My only issue is from a cost benefit analysis I just don't think at this time out not worth it and I think the case is not strong enough of you base it on obstruction of justice.
I'm not saying the feeling of disillusionment is greater than the need to vote out Trump. I'm saying that if people feel like they are voting for people who won't hold others accountable and do the job they are voted in to do, there is much less enthusiasm to vote. Not everyone will refuse to vote that feels that way. But it doesn't take that many to not vote in order to make a difference. If only 10% of people who would have voted don't vote, that could be enough in some places to give Trump a victory. Even those that do vote won't be excited to campaign, tell friends to vote, hang signs spread the word, register new voters, donate money or time to the candidates etc. A lifeless Democratic campaign will have a much tougher task of beating an energized Trump campaign. Hatred of the other side might motivate a lot of Trump voters, but I don't think it will be that motivating to Democratic voters. Voting for candidates that are willing to fight to do the right thing even when it's difficult matters. When it comes to Democratic voters, I believe a campaign that stands for something as opposed to simply against Trump will go much further in turning out the vote, registering new voters, motivating the cynics who don't vote, etc.
Nobody got voted in to Impeach Trump or to be the caretaker of History. just because you don't impeach Trump does not say you are not fighting to do the right thing, why is this one issue a litmus test? So you want a campaign that stands for something other than against Trump yet your hair is on fire about impeaching Trump? My entire point is that Democrats need to be campaigning on other things than Trump, impeaching him would drown out everything else meaning no other messages would break through.n Impeaching Trump would be the top thing to energize if you think not impeaching Trump will demoralize Democrats then we have no hope.
Just a few things. Accomplishment is not the same for everyone. It’s an opinion and your is but of one. I get your opinion. I don’t think you are hearing others. We differ in the opinion of obstruction of justice. I see it as a clear case. I thought you do too but that you don’t want to proceed because of the Senate. If you don’t even think he committed obstruction then we are too far apart and it’s a waste of time to try to close the gap.
They were voted in to do their job as an equal branch of the government. Part of that job putting the checks and balances in place. If they abstain from doing that because they are scared the public might get fatigued, then they are weak and they look weak. Going after Trump would be a by-product of standing for doing the job of Congress. I agree with you about campaigning on things other than Trump. They may or may not campaign on their impeachment of Trump. That is up to them. But I agree that they should have a message of things they want to accomplish. My point is that they can have whatever list of goals and lofty ideas, but if people believe they can't do their job those ideas won't mean anything.
I am looking at the macro when talking about accomplishments my entire outlook is to get Trump out of office in 20/20, I don't see any metrics that impeachment will do that. i don't think the case is there to Impeach on obstruction, Mueller looked at it in detail and did not make a concrete judgment so IMO it remains murky and the public has already made the judgment which will be telling come election time. i think he obstructed and the house should continue to investigate to strengthen the case, I think he will be prosecuted on multiple things once he is out of office and I am patient enough to wait on that. i hear everything you and others are saying I just don't agree that anything would be accomplished with impeachment at this time.
They are using their power by continuing to investigate if they stopped that I would be as upset as anyone. By not impeaching does not mean they are not doing anything, that thought process is my entire problem with many of the impeachment crowd. I am not totally against Impeachment I would like to see how things play out.
Congress does things because the people let them get away with it. I'm guessing there'd be an impeachment bump, but that bump melts away without any actionable results. Champions become grandstanders and scandals become an indicator of paralysis. All the people want are easy answers that require little to no effort on their end. If people are really tired of Trump. Prove it.
I get that. I think where we are in disagreement is that I believe there is already more than enough to impeach Trump. He was committing crimes, and abusing his power of office in order to cover up his administration's deeds. I also believe they should continue to investigate. But that can be done while starting the impeachment right now. Also I am looking at this through a political lens. If impeachment is truly unpopular and will fatigue voters, then let's get over and done with now so that by the time the election season is in full swing that is behind us.
[Premium Post] These impeachable deeds are so heinous that you can't even name them! Neither could Mueller. After two years of digging. GOOD DAY
Mueller lays out facts not judgment. He stated he is bound by DOJ guidelines and cannot make a judgement on indictment of a sitting president. This is why I said never mind early on... back to the start, going in circle... it’s all speculation and we disagree on the political impact of impeachment. I hope we agree it’s speculation. As I stated before, go back to 2016 and many earlier times on the “popular” and conventional take of political outcomes to be... just do the right thing (start impeachment proceeding) and live with the results.
I never stated that Mueller should have made a judgment, I just don't think he laid out slam dunk facts that impeachment should be based on, they still need further investigation IMO. I don't know why you trying to imply that I think my opinion is gospel, I recognize the start impeachment faction has legitimate reasons to feel that way. Yes it's speculation but what is not speculation is that impeachment will not remove Trump from office.
[Educational Post] No, actually Mueller said the opposite. He said that the guidelines involving a sitting President in no way affected his decision to not indict on obstruction. The facts speak for themselves on not indicting for conspiracy with Russians... there was simply no evidence of that. Remember, not a single American was charged, indicted, or convicted of conspiring with Russia to influence the 2016 election. Zero. After two years of digging by partisan prosecutors who hate Trump. The man has been cleared of any and all wrongdoing. Full stop. The liberals on the other hand, lied their faces off for two years. One of two things happened: 1) The liberals knowingly made two years worth of false accusations; or 2) The liberals got played like gullible fools by the intel agencies and media. You pick! GOOD DAY
