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Bush-Asccroft Repressing Speech. Now at UT Law School.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Feb 16, 2004.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    They want the names of all who attended a conference on women and Islam for their files. The conference was at the UT Law School.

    These guys are scary. I expect the typical defenders of Bush-Ashcroft see nothing wrong with this.
    ******************
    Army intelligence agents inquire about UT Islam conference
    2/12/2004 9:54 PM
    By: Eric Allen


    Sahar Aziz
    The U.S. Army sent intelligence agents to investigate a conference about women and Islam at the UT School of Law.

    UT law student and organizer Sahar Aziz was shocked at the Army's interest and methods.

    "It was not a terrorism related conference. It was very benign … The reason why we put it together is there had been a lot of debate on campus about these issues due to the burka [face-covering mask worn by Muslim women] in Afghanistan and Iraq," she said.

    A few days later, two U.S. Army intelligence agents showed up and wanted a list of all the people who attended the conference.

    They approached Jessica Biddle, who helped Aziz get funding for the event.

    "[I said] that he was intimidating me and is there a problem? His response was 'no, no problem, we're investigating a couple of people who attended the conference and we need to see the list,'" Biddle said.



    WATCH THE VIDEO



    Army investigation

    The U.S. Army sent intelligence agents to UT after a conference about women and Islam.







    Aziz said there was not a list of people in attendance.

    The U.S. Army has confirmed that the investigating agents are assigned to the Intelligence and Security Command based in Virginia.

    One agent left his business card with several students.

    But the idea that a conference on women and Islam would garner such attention is troubling to both Aziz and civil rights advocates.

    "We ought to be able to speak freely without worrying about government intimidation or the government spying on us," Jim Harrington of the Texas Civil Rights Project said.

    UT law professors also say the Army could be walking a fine line with regard to civil rights.

    "We certainly hope that the Army doesn't believe that attending a conference on Islamic law or Islam and women is itself ground for investigation," UT constitutional law professor Douglas Laycock said.

    Aziz said the Army's visit was a scary indication of attitudes towards Islam.

    "It's confirming a lot of people in the Muslim community's fears that anything we do related to our religion, no matter how secular it may be, or religious which is perfectly legitimate, that we will be under surveillance that we are we are guilty by association," Aziz said.

    Harrington and the Texas Civil Rights Project will publicly denounce the Army's investigation Friday.


    link
     
  2. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    If you have nothing to hide...

    :rolleyes:

    If we get four more years, Clutch will probably be receiving subpoenas re: the liberal posters on the board.
     
  3. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    i'm not about to defend Ashcroft...but is it possible this is just the DOJ tracking down terrorists? i mean, if they have credible information that this guy who they have very real suspicions about was at this conference, they would at least have a starting place to find his location now??
     
  4. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

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    I think they're just hot for Islamic women. Give love a chance!
     
  5. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

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    i think its a little more than that, if they said that they had evidence that terrorists lived in your area, would you approve them searching your home, especially twice over, because of your religion or 'matches' with the potential terrorists? today, more people are okay with it, but in the past, this would have been a travesty. as far as I know, the 911 terrorists had student visas, but they were not actual students in universities.
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    searching my home and asking for a list of people who attended a conference in a public university's law school are two very different things.
     
  7. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    Intimidation is one of the purposes of asking for the list. Using the government's powers to intimidate those whom disagree with the governments' policies is not worthy of the ideals upon which the United States is founded. If they have some real reason then I don't have a problem with it but this just smacks of intimidation.
     
  8. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    this is jumping to a conclusion based on facts we don't know. i agree...if this was just sort of thrown out there with no hint that some person of concern was really at this meeting, i have a real problem with this. but we just don't know that. i imagine there are meetings of muslim folks all the time, every day across the united states. i'm thinking/hoping there is something about the attendee(s) of this particular event that triggered this request.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I think us not knowing is much of the problem. If they said why they wanted it and it seemed like a legitimate interest, then folks might be ok with it. But for government -- and even Army -- agents to come in asking for stuff and don't make it clear why, it has a very intimidating effect. I'd like to think that a judge okayed a warrant, at least; something.
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    great point...and from what has been revealed in this article, it appears that wasn't done. i don't know what we don't know, though!

    again...please understand i'm not giving ashcroft a pass. enough is enough.
     
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I don't like to be alarmist either. That is why I believe that they aren't going to be monitoring this bbs.

    However, when we have actual proof that they are doing something that is questionable we should be worried till they explain it. As we saw with the wmd, where they kept trying to imply that they had secret or better intel that backed them up. they really didn't.

    We also saw where they did the same thing at Drake University. There is a pattern here.

    Those who always trust the govenment to not abuse its authority , really should try reading something about the McCarthy era or the 1960's when this type of thing got out of control.
     
  12. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Did you hear how they caught the soldier who wanted to seel secrets to AQ?
     
  13. Buck Turgidson

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    By monitoring jihadist websites, which cf.net hardly resembles.
     
  14. Buck Turgidson

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    Well, we don't know whether it was the government who saw his postings & then tracked him down, or if it was the admins of a few sites focused on the religion of Islam who reported him. The latter seems much more likely.
     
  15. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    They monitor chatrooms. That's all you need to know.;)
     
  16. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    I don't trust anything that Ashcroft has anything to do with. Apparently to make a point, he's willing to side with terrorists.


    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=542&e=4&u=/ap/terror_ashcroft_sued


    Prosecutor in Terror Case Sues Ashcroft
    Wed Feb 18, 9:02 AM ET Add White House - AP Cabinet & State to My Yahoo!


    By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON - The Justice Department (news - web sites) has exaggerated its performance in the war on terrorism, interfered with a major terror prosecution and compromised a confidential informant, a federal prosecutor has alleged in an extraordinary lawsuit against Attorney General John Ashcroft (news - web sites).


    Canadian Press Photo

    Mueller: Al-Qaida is Fragmented, Active
    (AP Video)



    The lawsuit by Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Convertino is the latest twist in the Bush administration's first major post-Sept. 11 terrorism prosecution, a Detroit case jeopardized over allegations of prosecutorial misconduct.


    Convertino was the lead prosecutor on the case, in which the government did not provide defense attorneys a letter alleging that a prosecution witness lied until long after a trial had ended.


    In his lawsuit, Convertino says the Justice Department is retaliating against him because he has complained frequently and publicly about "the lack of support and cooperation, lack of effective assistance, lack of resources and intradepartmental infighting" in terrorism cases.


    "These concerns directly related to the ability of the United States to effectively utilize the criminal justice system as a component in the `war on terrorism,'" says his lawsuit filed in federal court.


    According to the suit, a senior official in the Justice Department's terrorism and violent crimes section informed Convertino that news reports concerning the department's anti-terror efforts were not accurate and that the "press gives us more credit than we deserve." The lawsuit alleges "gross mismanagement" in the terrorism and violent crimes section.


    Convertino says he complained repeatedly to the Justice Department in Washington that it placed "perception" over "reality" to the serious detriment of the war on terror.


    He is seeking unspecified damages under the Privacy Act for harm to his reputation.

    .
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  17. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Yeah, but if they didn't give this guy the resources he needed to fight terror, they might not have enough resources left to go after the records of women who have had legal abortions.
     
  18. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    Speaking of abortion, doctor patient confidentialitity doesn't exist according to the Bushies, unless are a right wing supporter like oh, Rush Limbaugh


    http://www.naral.org/about/newsroom/pressrelease/pr021204_justicedept.cfm

    Bush Administration Violates Doctor-Patient Confidentiality


    Court Documents Reveal Position That is “Beyond Appalling,” Says NARAL Pro-Choice America Head


    WASHINGTON, DC – The Bush Administration has claimed in recent legal proceedings that it does not believe that there is any legal protection for the confidentiality of the doctor-patient relationship, according to recently released court documents. The claim was revealed in a judge’s decision denying the Justice Department’s demand to subpoena the records of patients who’d received abortion care at a Chicago hospital.
     

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