Yao makes his teammates better? Any statistical evidence? Their averages are lower and the team's record is still about the same. Show me statistically how Yao makes his teammates better and Steve doesn't.
Statistics? Do you even watch basketball? When you have constant double and triple teams, it gives your teammates more open looks. When you have terrible court vision, can't find the open man, can't run the break, and your best attribute is dribble penetration and a medium range jumpshot, you are not making your teammates better. You want stats? Can you say Assist/TO ratio? Go watch some basketball. Im done with you.
Those are the same double teams Steve was getting throughout his career. Steve has the ability to get by his defender and thus require the help defense. I think that's why Steve and Yao can be a good match.
You can't just take a few statistics and then not show the rest. What good is 20/6/6 with a 3.7 turnover rate? I mean, geeesh! We are talking about POINT GUARD, right? Is this acceptable to you? That's not the same as 9.6 assist and a 3.2 rate (Kidd). Or even better a 7.3 asstst and a 2.5 turnover rate (Payton). The issue is his total game, not just 20/6/6. And then you must go into other ares like court vision and team leadership. This are qualities that SF just doesn't have. Don't forget, we are talking about a guy in his 5th year. That's why Yao doesn't get a much criticism. He's in his 2nd year. He make improvements!!!! Francis has not, or not any that stands out (and I'm excluding this year just to make it simple for you). Also note that we are talking about our POINT GUARD! He's supposed to distribute the ball with out turning it over. These are skills that PGs are supposed to have. Guess not by your book, huh? I mean, hell! Even McGrady is a better PG than Francis. At least he doesn't turn the ball over and scores a hell of a lot more. And you can sit there and call SF a Point Guard? I'd say that he's a "above average shooting guard" trying to play the point.
You're assuming that when Steve penetrates, he can find the open man which he often cannot. He will go straight into a crowd and either score, try to draw the foul or turn the ball over. He is just not an effective passer. That is why so many people say he's playing out of position. What's the million dollar question? Can Steve Francis become an effective PG without sacrificing his SG skills? The jury is still out.
I agree that he doesn't always make the correct pass, but there are still plenty of times when he does. I'm not saying that Steve is the ideal pg, just that he does on occasion make his teammates better by drawing the defenses attention, much the same way Yao Ming does.
Fblade thats a great point! People act like SF3 is the worst PG in the league.. which he is not. It just stands out with us because we watch all his games, but as fans we are much too critical for our own good and most likely get swayed by emotions. I dont have a problem sticking up for SF3 or providing us a different perspective on SF or Yao for that matter. But when they try to tear a player down to make the other player look better than its ridiculous. SF3 and Yao are teammates (for better or for worse).. Im personally happy to have them both on our team.. I hope Yao keeps developing and SF3 keeps adjusting. I will only give up on them when they (themselves) stop trying. Go Yao! Go SF3! Go Rox! J
OK, don't get me wrong, I really like Steve... Just an oberservation I cannot help sharing: wasn't the T-Wolf the only top team we beat in the west conference this year? Is this the reason why? I mean by watching games other teams really struggled when playing one on one with Yao. Well, in the mean time, I'd like to see both Steve and Yao being double teamed, meaning we'll have a 3 on 1 situation elsewhere
Really? That's interesting, any proof of this? and if so, I wonder why Steve has a higher +/- rating than Yao http://www.82games.com/0304HOU1.HTM Because Yao is making him better? Please explain.
According to those statistics, Jim Jackson is more valuable on this team than Yao. That of course is true. Who would you say is more valuable? A player who draws constant double and triple teams or a point guard who couldn't hit the side of the barn with his passing.
Some day, look at Hakeem's assists during his glory years. If you wish to maintain that Hakeem wasn't generating open looks for his teammates, please do so. Centers don't usually get the assist, because unless the defense is terrible, it's the 2nd pass that actually finds the open man after a double team. Bad argument. Someone has too much invested in Francis, to attack Yao on grounds that are utterly baseless.
It's not about more valuable. You said this: Either you believe this statement is true or you were being hyperbolic. Which is it? Does Steve not make his teammates better as all, as you imply, or are you trying to say that Yao is simply better at this than steve is?
I used the term "valuable" in response to your statistical chart. And no, I do not believe Steve makes his teammates better. As the PG, your primary duties are to run the play, distribute to your teammates and create opportunities. He makes it easier for his teammates. Steve does not do that. Steve cannot consistently create opportunities for his teammates or find them for open looks. He is able to create for himself, which is not a bad thing but is not the PG's main responsibility.
I think consistently is the key word there. Steve does make his teammates better - well, he at least manages to get them open looks. But he pretty much seems to have to go into a play and decide ahead of time if he's going to do it, and who he's going to pass to. IMO, it's because he's not a great decision-maker and lacks court vision. Kidd can initiate the offense... and find any of the 5 guys on the court, if one of them becomes open. Francis, rather, tends to think, "ok, I'm going to penetrate, which will attract Cato's man, and I'll throw it to him for the dunk." There's nothing wrong with that - but he tneds to have set plays in mind, rather than just taking the best opportunities.
So it is your position that Steve Francis does not make his teammates better at all? Or is it that steve does not consistently make his teammates better? Or that Steve does not make his teammates better in a manner that your hypothetical point guard ideally should? The very fact that he sets up 6 successfully converted scoring opportunities for his teammates per game renders this first statement absolutely false, and possibly the second as well. I suggest you rephrase.
