First Take: "Giannis is the better player, but Harden is the MVP"

Sure. I was just posting it for the "best player" part of the discussion, not the "MVP" part. I think it's fair to look at prior seasons to try to judge who the best players are, and it is debatable whether total value accrued should matter more or just performance per possession.

 

I feel like playing in Western conference should give a bit of a head start against those playing in East.

Giannis can pad his stats against the likes of NYK, WAS, ATL, CHI and CLE 2x more than Harden. The only equivalent in the West is Phoenix.

 

damn that is so dumb

I aint clicking on that garbage

 

Wow

 

If you think we have a better chance to win the chip this year than Harden winning MVP, that is ridiculous to me.

I will not be hugely disappointed if we don't win the chip this year. A lot of games missed by key players, and CP was not himself until a month and a half ago...

But Harden winning MVP is a freaking low-hanging fruit. This is the best season of his career... The team just needs to perform when they play alongside Harden, and it's not that hard, and it's not much to ask for.

 

MVP has to give to Giannis if he is the best player in the nba. If Harden is the best player in the nba, then there is an argument.
Giannis = best player in the nba + best win record
Harden = ? + ?

As of today,
Giannis odd 55%
Harden odd 20%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/mvp.html

 

I wouldn't have issue with Giannis as the MVP.

The thing that I do take more and more of an issue with, and this is as a guy that is VERY pro Giannis, is the Giannis is a better player commentary.

I'm not so sure anymore. Certainly, from the Rockets-Bucks game, I don't really see anything that stands out for Giannis as DPOY, I get it... he's tall, long and moves his feet.

The WHOLE TEAM plays VERY SOLID defense, and more than anything, their scheming is INSANELY good. It's not just against the Rockets, it's against all teams. Bud has schemed them specific to teams. There are stats to back that up.

More to the point, I don't watch a ton of Bucks games and think... "man, Giannis is putting his stamp on this game defensively!" At least nowhere close to where you did with Draymond, Kawhi, Gobert.

Then offensively, he's basically Shaq, I guess. Except Shaq actually had a lot more moves and touch. Giannis has 679 made field goals this year so far. 266 are dunks. That's 39%!!!! A full 77% are dunks or at the rim layups. This is basically Shaq. And, OBVIOUSLY, Shaq is an all time great. BUt to call a spade a spade, Shaq's greatness is because of his insanely rare and freakish size... and so is Giannis.

To the extent he improved this year, offensively, he added muscle, and became more Shaq-like.

Like I said, I'm a huge Giannis fan. I can't knock it. You're one of a kind and huge, be huge, get dunks.

BUT... especially in an age where the 3 point shot is SO SO important, the ABSOLUTE key to the Bucks rise this season is (i) offensively putting a TON of spacing around Giannis, ESPECIALLY Brook Lopez, and (ii) defensively having Bud scheme masterfully.

 

It's sometimes funny listening to people justify their bias.

 

Even Rockets won, they are not going to credit Harden. They would claim that Harden got more help, because we got a so call BIG 3.

 

Any method that values Kyle Lowry much higher than KAT and Kawhi is definitely flawed.

 

The only criticism about Harden's passing is that he could get the turnovers down a bit. Some of his passes are jaw-droppingly good, but if he could skip the behind-the-back or the Hail Mary portion of his game, which usually lead to turnovers. 5 a game is too much.

Although this year has been different in that he's had to score more, what with a constantly-shuffling lineup.

Still, my dad (who doesn't watch much NBA, more of a college hoops guy) told me the other day about how good Harden is (Dad lives in Iowa), and I'll repeat what I told him: we're lucky to have Harden.

But let's keep it real, Giannis will get MVP. NBA likes new storylines. Unless Harden goes on a 50 point per game tear these last couple of weeks.

God knows Morey tried. Who knows? If Morey had known Giannis would be this good, he might have thrown in more to his offer at the draft.

 

Sure, but at least Giannis supporters would STFU.

 

I didn't say we have a better chance, my post alludes to valuing team accomplishments over personal accomplishments. Of course, Harden should win MVP this year.

 

Houston fans get trolled every season with the MVP discussion.

Just be like me. Dont give a damn about MVP. And you will save yourself a lot of headache every year.

 

[QUOTE="ROXTXIA,]
God knows Morey tried. Who knows? If Morey had known Giannis would be this good, he might have thrown in more to his offer at the draft.[/QUOTE]

Not familiar with this story, Morey seriously tried to trade up for Giannis?

 

No Doubt Giannis is the more physically gifted player. But Harden is the more skilled player.

And that's the difference - do you like the physical gifts or the skills that Harden displays.

Saying Giannis is a better passer is just idiotic.

 

This is the same crap as last year, just switch Giannis out with Lebron.

Harden's last five years have been all-time great, but people just find ways to knock him down simply because they like other players better.

HaRdEn iS tHe MvP bUt LeBrOn/GiAnNiS iS a BeTtEr PlAyEr

 

Harden drops 38 points tonight, and the next highest scorer in his team was 18 points.

Giannis did drop 34 points tonight, but Middleton also dropped 39 points. Now you can't tell me he hasn't got great support around him.

 

We are both saying the team should play better. If it did, Harden would have a stronger case for MVP.

It seems like winning a championship is the only thing people keep mentioning when the MVP race gets mentioned. Now I am sorry that I mistook you, but it annoys me that the attitude of clutchfans is screw the MVP, get us the chip. But we aren't winning chips if the team plays like this anyway. And its much easier for the team to help Harden get an MVP than going and getting a chip.

 

lol he said if bucks play like rockets they would never lose. If that was true wouldn't they just play like the rockets? that has got to be on of the dumbest things I have ever heard