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Neither Fish Nor Fouls

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by MacBeth, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    I thought I'd get back to on court problems for a change lately, and with a tad less Xs and Os/stats than I have been including lately.

    Do you guys remember that two headed animal from Dr. Doolittle's stable called Push Me Pull-Me? From certain perspective, it would seem that he should have been able to accomplish amazing things. Problem was, every time he'd get a few steps going in one direction, the other head would assert itself, arrest the momentum, and get going for a step or two in the other.

    In many ways this mythical animal from a children's book would seem to be the perfect analogy for the current manifestation of the Houston Rockets. We are neither a center oriented team, nor are we a guard oriented team. We have established an overall team identity; that of a defense-first team. And that's great. But at the other end, we are dysfunctional, disorganized and disorderly. We try and do various things when the mood suits us, but we have yet to take the most important step: commit. Until we commit to what we are trying to do, as a team, we won't be able to do it. Instead we will still be like Push Me Pull-Me.

    Instead I offer four reasons why, if you are going to be a center oriented inside out team, you need to commit to it, irrespective of immediate results.

    1.The Ground Game

    The center oriented game is somewhat equivalent to the grind-it-out mentality behind a running game in football. Both are battles with some immediate gains, but whose real advantages come over the long haul. In a runnung game you bang it out in the 1st and 2nd so you can run it out in the 3rd and 4th. You wear opposing defenses down, and when tired, players lose the ability to recover and rederict before they lose anything else. This favours the runner, as he is the initiator of direction, and from there can go where he wants.

    In basketball this has a minor effect, but there are other, greater reasons. They're called fouls. Inside guys draw fouls...IF you use them consistently. Otherwise, if you let the opposition dictate on the interior, it's your guys who accumulate fouls. But more to the point, if you go to the inside game sporadically, it's like hamstringing yourself; you lose the war of attrition, or at least you let the enemy live to fight another battle. All the work inside dominators put in goes to waste when you only go to them in spurts. Their value is that when you go to them consistently, not only will they get higher percentage shots, but they will accumulate fouls against the opponent. Teams will have to sit their better players to save them for the 4th. Teams will lose players, good ones, to thier 6th. This is what teams with dominant centers do...but do the Rockets? When was the last time Duncan was sitting with 3 with 5 minutes to go in the 2nd?

    And yet, as I showed last week, Yao draws as many fouls per shot attempt as the great Rocket centers of the past. So the potential is there. When we had Hakeem, etc., we became accustomed to seeing slews of opposing teams players in foul trouble, either sitting or playing less aggressively on defense as a result.It opens up so many opportunities. We have that, but we donlt follow through with it. Instead we are sometimes an inside team, some times a jump shooting team, and sometimes some weird indecisive combination, more by confusion than design. We'll always have something of a variety, to use Steve's amazing akills, but we need one direction to be clear as the path we are taking.

    Commit to the ground game, and grind it out, and we'll reap the rewards. But it takes a commitment.


    2. Clear and Real Roles

    Any parents reading this will agree that it is rare for children to say that they like rules. They are equally reluctant to own up to enjoying discipline. But we all know that, to grow and develop their sense of identity they need both. It is similar with basketball players, and the biggest factor in all of this that the Rockets need is clear roles, whether they like them or not.

    Remember how clear it was with Hakeem here? It was all so simple, Hakeem was the hub around which the other players revolved. If you had left it up to all the players as to what their roles were from opening day, we would never have gotten to that comfortable place. One of the few things Rudy was firm about was Hakeem was The Man. I don't know if any egos were ever hurt by that, but I do know that every one else found their jobs easier to understand, and eventually to perform. With this team, we have only one direction in which to go; to a center oriented inside out game. The sooner we commit, the sooner we learn ( often through error) all that we need to learn. You can see it on the floor in spurts; when the Rockets commit, really commit to the entry pass, we have a focus, an identity, if only briefly.

    Remember when Hakeem was here...it wasn't " Are we going to get it into the post?" it was "How are we going to get it into the post?" There were lots of teams trying lots of shemes to prevent it back then too, but it never altered our focus. Ok, maybe there are a few more wrinkles now, but we simply don't have the focus. Once we get that...once we, as a team, concede that our road to progress lies through the middle, and start finding ways to get us there rather than oft times looking for reasons why it's not convenient right now, the sooner we're taking all of our steps in the right direction, even if those steps are clumsy and even faltering at times in the beginning. Better that than two steps forward, two steps back. It's a mindset we need, a conviction. It won't come in spurts.

    3.R-E-S-P-E-C-T

    Inside out is a simple game. Ball goes in. If doubled, ball comes out to open shooters, or at most rotates to open shooter, who can take the outside J, move in for a mid ranger, or drive against the rotating defense towards the rim. It's all predicated on the first stage, and more, on the opposition fearing and knowing the first stage. If opposing teams feel that by aggressivley fronting Yao early or at key moments than can intimidate ( or fascilitate) our players into abandoning the entry pass, they've accomplished what they wanted to, and left us as a team looking for something to do with the ball. This is why we often look half hazard, because while being technically on the offensive side of the court, the opposition has gotten us to play defensively.

    In addition, if we commit to going inside with regularity, Yao will automatically get more respect from the refs. It works the same for team concepts as it does for individual players; if you do it all the time, refs adjust. We re-post yao, we re-set him. Our shooters learn where to be, Yao learns where they will be, everyone gets comfortable in their roles. There are times when we do this, so we know we can. Tonight there was an example: Nesterovic had Yao fronted, we passed out of the corner to the top of the key, Yao moved up and cut back behind Nesto, got the position we wanted, the ball went to the corner, into Yao, easy 2. Often it'll be plus 1. THAT's what commiting to the entry gets you. And if you do that regularly, you do to the defense exactly what they have been doing to us; you break their design, and force them to scramble to catch up.



    Forget about the physical problems this team is having for a second and think about how many evils can be cured by tackling this simple mental step. It's about commiting to one way and going with it rather than muddling around in the middle. Right now we are neither fish nor fowl, we are going in two directions at once, we are a team with two heads, like Dr. Doolittle's mythical beast. And as Napoleon said; " better one bad general than two good ones." If you want to get anywhere, you've got to be going there. If, as a team, you want to go forward, you've all got to be walking in the same direction. If we commit, if we get that mindset down, and players adopt and accept their roles, we're halfway there.



    Peace

    JAG
     
  2. TECH

    TECH Member

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    Quote: I thought I'd get back to on court problems for a change lately, and with a tad less Xs and Os/stats than I have been including lately.

    Nevertheless, a novel is born. :p
     
  3. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    But did you read it? Do you have any comments on the content?
     
  4. room4rentsf

    room4rentsf Member

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    Great post macbeth.. I enjoy reading most of your posts.

    I agree that we need an identity but I dont know what suits us best yet. Do we force Yao or MoT (or whoever) into this position and build around them even though they arent ready? Kind of like a rookie QB.. they need some time and evperience to transition into taking the helm and making it smooth. The ones that are forced into that role seem to struggle and burn themselves out much quicker.

    I like what JVG is doing but I would rather he play this season out and use it more for his evaluation. Keeping the playoffs in mind but toying with and testing different ideas/ scenarios to see what type of system works best with this team. Too much is predicated on Yao being the man... carrying the load aka burden.

    We have 2 awesome weapons.. inconsistent but awesome. I hope he is able to develop his system to factor in 2 types of players. I think its bull that SF and Yao cant play together.. great players can play with anyone and REALLY great players make everyone they play with better.

    I think SF and Yao are struggling right now and some of that has to do with the system JVG is trying to implement and some of it has to do with JVG being too rigid.

    Inside out works for me.. decide on something! and either modify it slighty for the players or get the players for the system. But keep an open mind.

    SF is an awesome talent and can become even better playing with someone like Yao. but likewise.. Yao is an awesome talent and could become even more dominant having someone like SF by his side.

    Kind of the Kobe/ Shaq phenom.. who is better? who is more dominant? who is the man? well we all know Shaq makes Kobe's like easier but on that same token Kobe takes pressure off Shaq too. Without Kobe teams would sag on Shaq too much..

    just throwing around some of my own ideas.. great post MC.

    J
     
  5. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

    Nope.

    :p

    Not really... I agree on the mental side, the need of commitment, etc.

    We do have an asylum here.
     
  6. francis 4 prez

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    the problem as i see it is

    a) you said we were getting 4 reasons and only gave us 3 :)

    b) the problem with the war of attrition is our guy is the one who will lose

    c) yes, one time yao was able to roll on rasho and get a nice pass. however, it's not like you just do that every time and it works every time. we often have yao try to move around his guy or move to the other side and such. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. yao will probably always struggle with fronting simply because he can't jump and zones allow a guy to sag into the lane to steal it from the back even if we do throw a good lob.

    d) you make the inside-out sound far too easy relative to what yao can do. you mentioned drawing the double team and kicking it out (which is the essence of inside-out) but how well does yao really do this. i said this in the lakers sets vs rockets sets thread, but yao does a very bad job of handling double teams. he immediately panics to the point he's more worried about protecting the ball and just getting it out of there and not on finding the open man. hakeem and shaq were usually quite calm when the double came and made the appropriate pass. yao stands straight up and allows people into his space, giving them a better chance at slapping the ball, and merely throws it to the nearest rocket. does this happen all the time, no. but it happens so frequently that it's hard to commit fully to inside out when you can't do the most elemental part of it.

    right now yao succeeds more when it's just an inside game. hopefully he'll learn better techniques, but for now the out of inside-out isn't very pretty.
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    SHOOTERS!!
    that is what the inside out game needs

    If our shooters are inconsistant the
    war can not be won

    Teams will collapse on Yao and pack it in the middle
    DO WE HAVE THE PERSONEL TO PUNISH THEM WITH?

    As I state in another post
    I think we need a three pronged attack
    A YAO ONLY Attack
    a FRANCIS ONLY Attack
    and a YAO AND FRANCIS Attack

    what I mean it IMO Yao and Francis should never be off the court
    at the same time.

    find the squad that each has the best chemisty with
    then run with it

    While
    YAO - MOT Jackson Mobley and Jackson is kewl
    Francis Cato Padget Piat and Jackson may work
    and then
    the starting line up

    sort of a THUNDER AND LIGHTNING Attack

    Rocket River
     
  8. montgo

    montgo Member

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    Aside from the technical aspects of the rockets that need to be improved to perform in the playoffs such as:

    -Turnovers - Team and Individual unforced turnovers.
    -Shooters - We need a consistent shooting game
    -Big Man Positioning - Yao did a better job last night and should have received more calls, but he still have trouble with his quickness and sealing off.

    The number one problem on this team is:

    My game versus his coaching - this type of mentality from Steve is not the leadership quality I look for in my highest paid player. I feel this is the number one problem
     
  9. AroundTheWorld

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    Fish? Fouls? Wtf?

    What about some more meat and less garnish? :)
     
  10. tothomas

    tothomas Member

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    I agree with you, but don’t you think the new defensive rules prevent us from running the type of post offense that was run in Hakeems day? It seems to me that there has to be a great deal more movement to get the ball into the posts if the defense is determined to stop you. With Hakeem you just threw it in, the defense doubles, or doesn’t and he’d play off what they did. Now the defense has guys in front and back and packed into the middle before the ball ever goes in. The solution to this problem seems to be moving your post player around so he can work into the post when the defense is at a disadvantage, or just having the shooters hit the open J when they pack it in. At least, that's what I see teams doing.

    The Rockets don’t seem to have the personel for that. Many times when I watch the Rockets are running a play to get Yao the ball, but the guards are running it a speed faster than Yao, and in many cases after having worked hared to get open they just don’t make the good pass. It’s a timing thing. As far as hitting the open J, most of the Rockets guards are streak shooters and off the dribble scorers.

    I would also add that a post offense doesn’t have to totally focus on Yao. MoT is also good down low, as well as Mobley, Jackson, and JJ in certain circumstances.

    At the beginning of the Yao/Francis era I was all for the two working together. In fact I’ve defended Francis and Mobley several times. As of right now, however, I’m of the opinion that their skills don’t mesh. For us to run the type of offense you propose against the type of defense that can be played today I think we need a change. We would need: A different PG (move SF to 2, and Mobley comes of the bench), A second PF that can hit the open short jumper and still hold his own in the low-post, and a pure shooter. I don’t know how we get those parts without trading one or more of these players SF, Mobley, Cato, MoT.
     
  11. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Like Doug Collins said, "The pieces of don't fit".
     
  12. mogrod

    mogrod Member

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    Great analogy Macbeth. I started a thread a few weeks ago hinting at this subject and I completely agree with you. Until we decide who is going to be THE man on this team and either make what we have work or find the pieces the work around that guy, we will never be an elite team.
     
  13. mogrod

    mogrod Member

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    tothomas brought up a god point too about the zone. I've hated it since the NBA allowed a few years ago. But I guess that's what the NBA gets when they bring in college defenses, college scores. It takes out the one thing that brought in the fans and made this game fun, great one-on-one matchups and strategy to stop the other teams best player. There would be no Wilt vs. Russell in today's game. it would just be a bunch of guys zoning down low.
     
  14. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    My point is in part that A) The team will never truly 'learn' how to be a post oriented team until we commit to it; it's not something you can half-do, and B) Yao himself will never really be 'ready' until we try him and let him learn by doing. There's not a lot of book-learning that goes into being the center of an offense, it's only experience that will benefit him. It will probably lead to some short-term failures, but if he is our future, and I feel he is, there's no other way to get us there. QB's are often slowly eased in because of the equivalent of book-learning; reading defense, knowing the offense, etc. It's very linear. Basketball is much more phlegmatic, and can't be taught the same way.
     
  15. AroundTheWorld

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    Thanks for the summary. So you are basically saying the same thing as DaDakota. I agree.
     
  16. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Aside from the fact that it takes away from the foul attrition, I have tried coming up with various methods of combining Yao and Francis as focal points in the attack, but to do so means to leave it up to the players to read sistuations and react with the best plan. I am honestly not certain anymore that Fracnsi posseses the requisite ability/willingness to make those kinds of reads.
     
  17. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Originally posted by tothomas
    Absolutely...but that doesn't make it any less viable. There are other teams, Lakers, San Antonio, Indiana, etc. whose offenses are based on feeding the post. It means you might face more wrinkles, but the foundation...the commitment...has to be there.



    A bit of a misconception, IMO. Yeah, it's harder now...but there were times, particularly during the early playoff series, when teams made all kinds of concerted and often effective efforts to deny Hakeem the ball. It was only after it became apparent that we were going to do it no matter what that teams backed off. I hate to use a childish cliche ( quota is up) but where there's a will there's a way. It's not Rocket science, it's feeding the post. We saw in yesterdays's game alone two different means of countering efforts to deny, but they are predicated on commitment.
     
  18. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Bingo! What was the thread?
     
  19. mogrod

    mogrod Member

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    It was just a thread that talked about the championship teams of the last ten yrs or so. Every one of the them had that one guy. From Isiah to Dream to Shaq and Duncan, they were THE guy and everyone else were good, some great, role players (ie: Pippen & Kobe are great players but they knew who's team it was and thus role players). Who's team is this? Can we honestly answer this question or just answer on who we think SHOULD be the man?
     
  20. ckfol

    ckfol Member

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    Francis only attack = airball
     

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