The issue with our point position, and meshing it with a center oriented team is not the lack of playmaking wizardry. People in here seem to be making a flawed argument: Steve doesn;t work in this offense...Steve's weakness is his playmaking...hence what we need is a playmaker. A playmaker would be fine, so long as he can hit the outside J, but it's not necessary. All we need out of the point, if Yao is going top be the focus of our offense, is an efficient ballhandler who can hit the J, and is willing to defer. Think about center oriented offenses...think Olajuwon...think Shaq...The halfcourt consists of making sure the entry pass gets in, and then spacing and hitting off the double. Jason Kidd would be a luxury, but on this tea, with a slow down, center oriented offense, he'd be wasted. And his greatest weakness, the J, is what we least need from our PG, aside from a willigness to give up the ball at the right time. We need more of a Mo Cheeks than Jason Kidd. We need a solid guy, a tough guy who won't back down, an unselfish guy who knows when to deliver the simple pass, and has the ability to do so, and to hit the J. That's it. The good news is that Steve isn;t as far away as we'd think...He'll never be Jason Kidd, but that's fine, we don't need that. More good news is that Francis seems to be making an effort as far as the willingness to give it up. The bad news is that I don't know if he'll ever be a dependable handler, his J is regressing and was never great, and he still has to learn the simple art of the entry pass. It can come...and Steve's other gifts can be worked into the offense once he accepts that they come second...but if we are going to be trading him, it's important to realize what we need, and do not need, from his replacement. I'll say it agin: Hinrich is perfect, but there are others. People suggesting guys like Ford are looking in the wrong direction.
MacBeth, where I understand what point you're trying to make, I think there is one flaw. What happens when Yao is doubled? He's been pretty much ineffective when he's doubled this year. Once again, out-of-towner here, but the games I have been able to see, Yao was useless when doubled. Olajuwon was able to get a good vision of the court and skip the ball to the weak side. The only pass I've ever seen Yao make was to the guy on the same side, then he swings it to the top and around the horn. This isn't going to work.
That's why we need the pg to be able to hit the J. Basketball, especially inside-out, is really very simple. Go in, single or soft doulbe, C takes the shot, 3 and 4 ( or in JVG's system, 4 only) head for the boards. If the double is hard, kick out to open shooter, or kick to available reciever and rotate to open shooter. Have to have guys who can hit the J 1-4, with 1-3 having to be able to his mid to long. This offense makes teams pay for doubling...and then if they adjust, Yao makes them pay for adjusting. Simple but virtually unstoppable when excecuted right with the right personel.
MacBeth, I think you may get a significant argument saying Kidd would be a luxury but wasted. If you mean that his playmaking abilities have little outlet in this offense, I couldn't disagree more. 1) The biggest difference with a true playmaker ala Kidd would be a consistent, well-run break. The number of easy baskets this team should be getting with its interior defense and athletic wings... our PPG would jump significantly. 2) Even in the halfcourt, a penetrator/playmaker like Kidd has a huge impact on the game. Pick and Roll, suddenly you have the big man to defend much more tightly, but you can't let Kidd turn the corner... what to do? Two man game, Three man game - just putting him on the side entering the ball to Yao along with JJ, I'll bet the fronting defense will suddenly cease to exist. The "playmaker" has plenty of opportunity in the post-driven offense. We'd just have to make sure Toni Braxton stays away from our games.
Bah. 1. Even if you convince Francis to "play right," for whatever reason, he misses his shots when he doesn't set them up off the dribble. For somebody with a decent stroke, Steve has to be the worst spot-up shooter in history. 2. Francis' ball-handling skills are overrated. I don't care if we have a playmaker at the 1. But we do need someone who can protect the ball. Francis doesn't.
I'm not saying he wouldn't make some things better, but his value would be lessened. As we have limited value with which to acquire value in kind, we need to spend in wisely, on talent that will be make efficient use of it's strengths here. Yes, Kidd would be effiicent...but his gift lies in movement,not just on the break, but in the halfcourt. We can run a certain amount of movement in the 1/2, but given Yaos' stature, lateral quicks ( weak) and especially endurance, we're going to be fairly static in the middle quite a bit, like the hub of a revolving wheel. The key passes will still be into the post and out of the post, and Kidd's skills wouldn;t be needed there. better to get less pure passing talent, but a better shooter, and defer the star talent to another position like the 2, 3, or especially 4.
So nice to finally be able to comment about the game and the players after actually watching a full game tonight in over a week. I agree about the Rockets needing a PG who can hit the midrange and open jumper to stop all the sagging in the paint on Yao. Most teams are willing to gamble on the Rockets perimeter jumpers more then being willing to let Yao do his thing in the low post. Some teams do share the philosophy though of just single coveraging Yao with 3 or 4 centers and just busting a forearm into his lower back all night. The most effective approach though is when they sag on defense and front him. Usually it means a small guard is shadowing in the paint anticipating a lob pass over the guy fronting Yao, leaving one of our guards open for a baseline J. Or it means they're fronting Yao by leaving our PF open to hit the midrange jumper around the top of the key with consistency. Back to the original topic of the post though, having another guy who can hit the open J around the perimeter would be very nice for the Rockets. It'd make the other teams have to honor our perimeter game and it'd open up the paint. Another quality the Rockets need from their PG is someone who can lead the fastbreak. Although it's not just the PGs fault for our constant breakdowns on 3 on 2 or 4 on 3 opportunities down the floor. Our spacing is terrible, and it just seems as though no one on the team knows the meaning of a trailer or running at the wings at the same speed of the PG. That's one thing JKidd would do. He'd give us atleast 8 points a night on fastbreak opportunities oppose to the constant Brake Check donation that Bill & Calvin bring up where it's normal to see the team average a whopping 2 points for the whole game. The Rockets might actually be a 90 PPG team if they could ever figure out how to run the fastbreak with consistency. It's just the slow it down offense in JVG's system that causes a lack of fastbreak opportunities. They simply don't run it well.
Meant to close the post off with saying it's not just the slow it down offense in JVG's system that causes the lack of fastbreak opportunities. They simply don't run it well.
I've always really liked Francis (and Mobley for that matter), but while he's sacrificed shots for this team... they are all the shots he used to make!!! sigh.... Now, I hear what you are saying, but You can't be serious about that. Mark Jackson, even on crutches, was like a sip of water in the middle of the Sahara. I just think he'd find his place quite easily. I actually think Yao would be even more effective in a motion offense. His highest percentage play last year was the pick and dive into the lane (where'd that go??). Did you see the play they put in today where Ball is up top, swings to JJ on the wing while Yao comes off a pick from the High post. JJ hit him for a dunk one time. The other time (second to last possession) the play was there again but Hinrich snuck in and stole the ball (great play but preventable with a 7'6" pass.
Lol. Allow me to clarify. Kidd's passing ability above and beyond a solid passing point would be an inefficient use of his ability, and an inefficient expendature of talent value for the team. I agree that some more motions would be wise ( see my post in the lakers Sets thread) but it will never be our staple. I think JVH, as most coaches would with Yao, envisions a fairly traditional inside-out offense. Mo Cheeks will do just fine. Terry Porter, Derek Harper, Chauncey Billups, Kurt Hinrich, etc. These are the types we need...Kidd would be better, but not enough to justify expenfing what it would take to get him, and his lack of consistent J would even lessen the margin.
What? Yes there were...just no zone doubles. The entire premise of the offense back then was to hit the open shooter off of the double on Dream. Now they can run a double as a prevent, but then there's an open shooter. We need shooters at all positions.
Totally agree. I have been saying that all the time in different threads: Lakers can make outside jumper, that makes Shaq more dominant. Rockets can't, so Yao's life is even more difficult. In and out and in again, or in and out, and swing. As simple as that. Rockets was flourished wit Hakeem. I guess people should be clear about simple big man game.
Oh, I agree with all of those players. I even think a Super Matt Maloney would be a better fit than the current version of Francis. I also completely agree that a consistent midrange jumper from you PG is vital. I'm just saying the penetrator/superior playmaker = consistent set 3 pt shooter. They'll just get the job done differently. Think Tony Parker as a rookie PG playing with Tim Duncan. Parker's long range J stinks. It still does. But he was an impact player on that championship team, and he doesn't have 1/2 the passing skills of Kidd. In the specific situation off the post double, a penetrator on the level of Paker and Kidd going 4 on 3 is a walk in the park. Now they do need a finish if the rotation/recovery is exceptional. That's where the stop-and-pop J and in Parker's case his teardrop in the lane will hurt the D.
Typing this stuff makes me realize (even more) that Steve has none of these things. Sigh, it's depressing. Steve!!!!! Set 3 pt shot!!!!! Midrange finish!!!!! Before I get old, please!!!!
I have to disagree here, based on space, As Yao takes up the middle, and we want to expoint him in singles, to have a penatrator enter after the kick out means he's penetrating in off of the double, ( ie lack of space) or he's making the double switch easier. Same trouble Indy's having right now with Tinsley and O'Neal. It can be effective at times, but it's easier to defend, causes more trouble, and restructures the spacing in a less effective manner.
macjag, pretty much agree with you on the type of PG we could survive with, although i would prabably like a little more dribble penetration/create for others than you listed, however i don't agree on the Kidd being a luxury here.... the nets had 41 assists tonight and think they lead the league in percentage of baskets scored on assists, something way over 60% we would have a transition game with Kidd (and alot of other lessr PGs) that would give us alot more easy basket, and i don't subscribe that a better transition game and fastbreak doens't help Yao... he would adjust. although Kidd is the exception in PG ranks... he would be amazing here...... he has made passing and finding the open man team wide at the Nets... they are all so much better passers with matching better vision aswell i also agree Steve could fill this role, although not sure he will want to or the dribbling, vision, shooting will ever be good enough.......
Right on. JKidd is good for any team to have, period. Watching the nets getting all those effortless baskets, and then watch the Rockets with Francis or cat dribbling down the clock and decides to drive inside and collide with 4 defenders is pain. I can venture to say if JKidd is on our team, we'll be in the finals.
I completely understand the concept. The reason I (and many of us) are here is just as much Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell as it is Hakeem (well, not really but I do love those guys ). I am still not quite over my Rudy T hangover as well. Spacing was literally offensive dogma to him. However, I think if Rudy were still coaching this team, someone blindfolded and whacked him in the back of the head, and then traded Francis for Kidd, Rudy would protest and then rub his hands together with glee. You might even argue that - in fact, I will argue that - a playmaker will be even more effective today than a solid set 3 pt shooter with zone defense and zone principles a modern free for all. Think our Achilles heel all the Dream + Great set shooter PG years.... the Seattle Supersonics. We might not be here if we had to go through them. Now put Kidd or a creator/playmaker on that team. And we're back to ClutchCity(fans) again.
