Nice video from Ben Taylor, the Thinking Basketball author who did that fantastic top 40 series last year. You may not like his answer, but I like the way thinks through the question analytically.
We are witnessing greatness. If CP3 doesn't come back all season, I believe Harden can average at least 37 points per game.
It's a good video @durvasa And I enjoyed it, but ben had no reason to bring about past playoff failures when speaking about a single season hypothesis. It shows random and involuntarily bias when trying to compare what harden is "currently doing" to historical feats; while mentioning his other seasons "faults" as if they hold merit to the topic of a single season dominance. Harden's 2019 season is still being written, so to be Frank, we cant quite yet rank it and we DAMN SURE cant diminish it with frivolous things like past transgressions. Otherwise it was great work from Ben as always.
It matters in this sense. When determining whether it’s the “greatest scoring season” historically — how much do you weight regular season vs playoffs? If we think playoffs should matter, or even matter more, then if we are trying think about how Harden’s season will rank historically, mid-season, we need to consider whether he is likely to carry over this performance into the playoffs. Looking at past history then becomes relevant when thinking about that. And you’re right, we can’t really answer the question of the video at this stage. But once it is the off season and we are reflecting on where this season ranks, what he did in the playoffs will likely be a major factor.
I can agree with that, but you must also then do the same to the other players. Wilt easily drops out of the discussion because of his playoff performance in '62. Went from 50ppg / 50% to 35 ppg / 47% all 48 minutes games. Kobe only cleared 30pts once vs PHX in a 7 game series (losing his one big game -- 50 pts in 53 minutes), and getting bounced in 1st round...more importantly, it was only his 8th highest ppg in playoffs at 27.9...on 45 mpg. Even if we want to elevate Curry's year based upon Playoffs, (and is Taylor even doing that?) look at the stats; that playoff year of the 73 wins is kinda his worse in the GSW dynasty era, and that juggernaut's worse playoff run -- almost lost to OKC, too. It's still fine stats (aside from the team's underperformance), but is that season even in the discussion? If we are going to do as Taylor says, then it kinda already leaves just a comparison to MJ, imo.
Exactly. When people mention Kobe's 05/06 campaign they don't bring up playoff stats. Hell they don't even bring up the fact that his team blew a 3-1 lead to Phoenix that year. When they bring up MJ's 37.1 season they don't bring up his stats against Boston in the playoffs. Bringing up Harden's playoff stats in the midst of one of the greatest scoring seasons ever is unnecessary.
Good video, but not great. Especially when he doesn't get into any details on his custom algorithm that he claimed took into account teammates. In Currys epic season, he had 3 all-star players on his team who were literally giving him high percentage shots. So yes, it would make sense for his shots to be more efficient. He was gifted so many perfect opportunities and excelled in the moment and took advantage of each one. James Harden on the other hand doesn't have that, he has to create his own shots as evidenced by not getting any assists in his last near 300 points made. So of course he will be hitting at a lower percent, yet still ridiculously efficient.
That's easy. It's ALWAYS regular season. Playoffs don't enter into the conversation. In basketball, and every other sport.
@durvasa, haven’t had time to watch the vid closely wrt the stats he using, but how does he treat wins. Jordan only won 40 games in his 37.1ppg year, so reason dictates we should only be comparing his following year, the MVP 35.0 ppg year. We could just say that if you didn’t win MVP, your year is out of the discussion, as the voters already determined that your lack of Wins eliminates you. If that’s too harsh, then you should at least be able to win half your games.
I agree we will reflect back on this season and his post season will have a lot to do with how it is judged in historical comparisons. But let us remember Kobe in 05-06 when he scored over 35 a game in the regular season scored only 27 a game in the playoffs. Steph curry's amazing efficiency season of 56% from 2 and 45% from 3 dropped to 48% and 40% while going from 30ppg to 25ppg. Now, dont get me wrong they where both amazing seasons and are remembered as such. But when we reflect back we dont contemplate or remember that their production did dip from the regular season and I cant almost guarantee we wont see the same leniency from hardens perspective. That's narrative and bias. Let us also not forget that neither Kobe or curry won the championship in these historical seasons. Neither did Jordan in 86-87. Jordan is still the goat FWIW and hes deserved of the single greatest season. He elevated everything that year in the playoffs except his efficiency dipped.
The argument against MJ’s ‘87 year is not playoffs, it’s the fact he lost 42 games, and wasn’t even MVP, so voters eliminated him based on he was NOT effective to Wins. The only reason we’d really even give that year lip-service is because only after do we learn that MJ was effective to Wins. But he damn sure wasn’t in that year, so imso, we should toss that year out as too low of a bar for Wins to consider for future “ballhogs”. No one would ever consider a future player posting a 40-42 year to be MVP worthy or to be best scoring season worthy, as we shouldn’t. But, his 35.0 season the following year, when he won 50 games and MVP, yes.
Right and that goes back to the point of it doesn't really mean much to bring up Harden's playoff numbers in discussing the offensive onslaught he's going through right now.
Exactly. Playoffs couldn't be more different than the regular season and cannot be included in any serious comparison. Regular season: huge sample sizes including matchups against nearly if not every team (depending on sport). Playoffs: 4-7 games per round against the exact same team with each team recalculating their approach after each game. Honestly, if a star player DID manage to keep their playoff averages as high as their regular season averages, something very strange must have happened. They either reached previously unknown heights in their play, or, more likely, they played crappy teams that couldn't/didn't adjust to try to stop them, and those playoffs were boring.
