Well...This may not belong here, but just something I'd like you all read this ignorant network. You all judge it for yourselves. Czaban: Chinaman Response LAST UPDATE: 1/30/2004 9:47:37 PM Posted By: CyberBob By Steve Czaban The Ticket 760AM Weekdays 7-9pm I got plenty of feedback on the Steve Kerr “Chinaman” story, where I asked for a history of where, how and why that term became offensive, since it never did for Frenchman, Dutchman, Irishman or the like. And to summarize the responses, they basically all say that “it’s offensive, just because it is.” Which, I suppose is, fine. Historically, I understand that term was used in an unflattering manner, and also quite often as a blanked term for anyone Asian (like Japanese, Korean, etc.). Still, I am left wondering: “If you can’t call Yao Ming a 7-6 Chinaman, what CAN you call him?” http://www.woai.com/spurs/story.aspx?content_id=00AF71AE-658B-416D-A3B3-A65C288D31B1
You can call him a 7-6 Chinese guy. Chinaman is a reference to some poor dude that work in the railroad that got beat up and is sort of like a slave to the "******" for black. So it is offensive.
how about Yao Ming, the 7-6 houston rocket? you dont have to tell us what country hes from. i think everyone in the world knows where hes from. and if they dont, they most probably can tell by looking at him.
You should have just posted this in one of the four or so threads which already exist in the Debate and Discussion forum.
I never understand this argument. It's not Franceman, Hollandman or Irelandman. or Americaman, Englandman, Japanman, Russiaman, Swedenman, Norwayman, Germanyman, Canadaman, Iraqman, etc.
well, you don't even hear announcers say "and he takes a jump shot over the 7'0 blackman" or African American Man or AfricanMan, why does their need to be a word for Yao?
Would you be offended if you were called Americaman? Sounds like some kind of superhero to me. Canadaman even moreso (not that I think Canada is better than America). That argument doesn't fly with me. Historical usage making it offensive is fine, but Chinaman just rolls off the tongue easier than Chineseman. Mongolman is easier to say than Mongoliaman. It just depends on which word combines more easily with -man, the name of the country, or the adjective meaning of or from that country. I actually liked the Chinaguy suggestion.
Depending on the context and if they continued to use the term after being corrected on it yes. imagine being in a foreign country and everyone called you Americaman. it would get annoying. Besides "Chinaman", which other term incoporates country+man=person from that country?
This guy must not have done alot of searching we went through this in exhaustive detail on this forum explaining the history about the railroads and discrimination against the Chinese in the 19th and early 20th C. and why the term "Chinaman" is a offensive as the term "******". I suggest that stupidmoniker look back at those threads to understand why it shouldn't be used. Also in regards to rolling off the tongue "******", "darkie" or be a little bit less offensive "negro" all roll off the tongue a lot better than "African American". Yet for the same reasons we don't use those terms don't use "chinaman" To head off the well everyone knows "******" or "darkie" is offensive but not "chinaman" in that case then get informed. Finally to head off the inevitable firestorm I'm going to get for not using "n-word" instead of "******" I want people to get offended to show how even using a term like that when the intent is clearly not racist is still jarring the same as even if someone uses "chinaman" with total innocent intent is still jarring Asians.
TWO VERY DIFFERENT types of responses came to 80-20, after the earlier e-mail entitled "Yao Ming Called A Chinaxxx." THE FIRST GROUP of responses were most positive. They thanked 80-20 for standing up for our community and its great effectiveness. THE SECOND GROUP were from APAs who were puzzled over why Chinaxxx was a bad term; some even accused 80-20 of being too sensitive. A typical response was: "I was from China. I am a man. What is wrong with being called a Chinaxxx? Why are Frenchman and Englishman acceptable, but not Chinaxxx?" Such questions probably came mostly from first generation immigrants. Their puzzlement is most understandable. 80-20 uses this occasion to let our diverse community -- from the 1st to perhaps the 6th generation immigrants – know why the term Chinaman is derogatory. The English language is defined by its dictionaries, not by individuals. The most authoritative dictionary in English is Webster. Webster (10th edition) defines N-gger: a black person - usu. taken to be offensive; Chinaman: Chinese - often taken to be offensive. The term "Chinaxxx" has a long & sad history in this country. Chinaman didn't have a bad connotation a long time ago. It was used just like Englishman and Frenchman. However, in 1853, conviction of killers for the murder of Ling Sing was OVERturned on the grounds that testimony from the "INFERIOR CASTE OF PEOPLE WHO WERE NON-CITIZENS, " should be thrown out. It meant that Chinese testimony against the whites was not admissible. Once that legal precedent was set, the whites learnt that they could terrorize Chinese without fear of legal consequences. Numerous such incidents happened. Thereafter, the phrase "not a Chinaxxx's chance" was coined, meaning "not much of a chance." The word "Chinaxxx" became an offensive term to Chinese Americans and probably to all Chinese. - - - - - - - - LETTER OF APOLOGY FROM MR. STEVE KERR: Mr. Steven Kerr who reacted to his inadvertent mistake admirably just requested that I publicize his letter of apology. He told me that he has reached Yao Ming who has accepted his apology. His letter which reached me this morning, after his verbal apology of yesterday is shown below. I hope that our entire community will now accept his apology. "Dear Mr. Woo, First of all, let me apologize again for my mistake during Monday night's telecast. I have felt horrible all day long today knowing that I offended many people. I assure you I was unaware that my choice of words was inappropriate, and in no way did I use it maliciously. As I mentioned earlier, I was using the term the same way I would use 'Frenchman' or 'Englishman', and I was totally unaware that the word I used is a derogatory one dating back to the 19th century. I am ashamed of what happened, especially since I take great pride in being extremely open minded and tolerant. I have spent a good part of my life living in foreign countries and I have respect for all cultures, races and religions. My sister in law is Chinese American, and my brother in law is a respected Chinese history scholar at Cambridge University in England. One of my best friends, in fact, is also Chinese American. I called them all today to explain what happened. Anyway, I have already planned to apologize to Yao Ming, and I will attempt to call him today. As you know he is a difficult person to reach, but I will do my best to talk to him, or at least to his interpreter Cxxxx Pxxx. I will let you know if I'm able to contact Yao Ming. In the meantime, I wish you the best of luck and I apologize again for this matter. Also, thank you very much for not making this a public issue. I realize that you have every right to do so, and the fact that You have not is saving me great embarrassment. Thank you so much for that. I will do my best to let people know that the phrase I used is inappropriate because of the context in which it was used in the past. Sincerely, Steve Kerr"
I see the Clutch Fan filters already block out the N-word because to prevent it from being used at all, even in ignorance. Thats what many Asians would like to see regarding the term "chinaman"
Sorry for the rapid fire post. I've said this before in the previous threads on this topic but it bears repeating. For me personally I accept Steve Kerr's apology and think he handled it exellently. I thought it was pretty obvious that he was not a racist and was merely ignorant regarding the issue. He was informed and apologized for an inadvertant error and promised to be more careful in the future. As an Asian American that's all I wanted and am some ways am glad this issue has come up to raise awareness. At the same time I also believe that terms like these shouldn't be banned because they have cultural relevance to art and history but that people are at least aware of why many find the term offensive.
I think you are a little confused. I said (and you quoted me as saying) that I agree that the term should not be used due to the historical usage WRT railroad workers. I suggest the Sishir Chang take a course in reading comprehension. outlaw, I can't think of a single country that uses [country]man besides China. I can think of quite a few that don't follow the [adjective meaning of or from country]man formula. For example, American or Scotsman. I don't think people would know what you were talking about if you said someone was a Chinan or Chiman though (maybe ChiCom ). Anyway, for a long time, Chinaman was an accepted term, and as seen in kryten's post, those who are ignorant of its historical significance, even Chinese, are not offended by it. There is nothing inherently offensive in the term, it only became offensive when it was used for a long time to denigrate.
Point being, I can't think of a single country that uses it, including China. China doesn't use it, some Westerners do. Scots call themsleves Scots. That is what most others call them too. Americans call themselves Americans, and so do others. Chinese people don't refer to themselves as Chinamen. Aside from all the historical assosciation, it's rude because it's given by an external.
Yeah I got that but I still responded because I thought your reason for using it, that it rolled off the tongue better than saying Chinese guy, was so ridiculous that it merited a further review of just why many of us find it so offensive.
