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[The Hill] Witch hunt or mole hunt? Times bombshell blows up all theories

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jan 13, 2019.

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  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    It seems ridiculous to me to cast Trump's "witch hunt!" accusations as anything other than a cynical attempt to undermine the credibility of his investigators. But, I'm told that's just my cognition bias talking.
     
    #21 JuanValdez, Jan 14, 2019
  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    not if Turley’s second scenario turns out to be closer to the truth
     
    #22 Os Trigonum, Jan 14, 2019
  3. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    Well, then all trump has to do is have his interpreter to that meeting produce her notes, or point to where they are stored on record...

     
    #23 NewRoxFan, Jan 14, 2019
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    #24 NewRoxFan, Jan 14, 2019
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    #25 Os Trigonum, Jan 14, 2019
  6. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    The FBI investigates Hillary Clinton: patriots who put country first to take down the granny with the big, bad email server

    The FBI investigates Donald Trump: deep state run amok
     
    #26 mtbrays, Jan 14, 2019
    Sweet Lou 4 2 and mdrowe00 like this.
  7. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #27 Rashmon, Jan 14, 2019
    NewRoxFan, Harrisment and Anticope like this.
  8. bongman

    bongman Member

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    President Donald Trump has said he was thinking of "this Russia thing" when he decided to fire James Comey. That came from his mouth. If that is NOT suspicious activity, not sure what is.
     
    #28 bongman, Jan 14, 2019
    No Worries likes this.
  9. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Member

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    Pretty much every statement from him, Rudy, Sanders, etc... come across as a guilty person trying to deflect, evade or obfuscate.
     
    #29 Buck Turgidson, Jan 14, 2019
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    #30 NewRoxFan, Jan 14, 2019
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    wow, very timely. great that you spotted that. Here are the key issues:

    "Should she be asked? It’s a tough, tough, tough question.

    "Arguments against:

    • A friend who holds a senior foreign-policy position in an EU government was absolutely horrified at the prospect of a subpoena for Gross. No admirer of Trump’s, this person felt such a subpoena would create a new precedent that would shadow all future confidential presidential conversations with non-English-speaking heads of government, allied as well as adversarial.
    • The Trump administration would surely raise an executive-privilege objection. In the 1974 case U.S. v. Nixon, the Supreme Court rejected an absolute claim of internal privilege within the executive branch. But it acknowledged “the valid need for protection of communications between high Government officials and those who advise and assist them in the performance of their manifold duties.” The court stressed that this privilege was at its strongest in military and diplomatic affairs, which would presumably describe the Helsinki meeting.
    • There is a nontrivial possibility that Gross might refuse to testify. Interpreters have a strong professional code of confidentiality. This code is not recognized in law, but like a newspaper reporter protecting his or her sources, Gross might feel honor-bound to uphold the code anyway—risking a contempt citation or even jail. Should she be put in that position?"
    ​
    The rest of it goes on to suggest that this is an unprecedented crisis ("very possibly the worst scandal in the history of the U.S. government"). The problem is, there is no way the author of this essay (or anyone else outside of Mueller, the investigators, and the FBI) know this. So I would think it is premature to be calling for subpoenas of interpreters based on what little evidence we have. Down the line--yes, it may be necessary. But then the above objections would still hold, particularly the question of executive privilege.

    My view? "Subpoena the interpreter now; write a new law formalizing the confidentiality of interpretation later." I think it's jumping the gun . . . it's too early to be calling for subpoenas.
     
    #31 Os Trigonum, Jan 14, 2019
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That was the part I was reacting to. I find it very, very hard to believe the axiomatic underpinning -- that Trump sincerely believed there was nothing to the Russia investigation except a cynical political hit job -- that makes that whole narrative spin. Even if he thought this was just opportunism from partisans like Obama or Schiff, even Comey, he would still see how there was legitimate concern from the likes of Rosenstein whom he nominated, Corker, even sometimes Paul Ryan. Republicans crossed the aisle to pass a veto-proof bill to keep him from lifting sanctions on Russia. So he knows there was sincere, non-witch-hunt concern that he got tangled up in some way with the Russians and did nothing to genuinely try to allay those fears. Not everything Trump saw could be part of the conspiracy. And if he thought they were, he's more crazy than I thought.
     
    #32 JuanValdez, Jan 14, 2019
    joshuaao likes this.
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    I think trump put the interpreter in a terrible situation. Intelligence person after intelligence person has questioned and criticized the president's determination to have highly sensitive discussions with the russian president without having sufficient staff to take notes and ensure that the discussions are included on record. By doing so, he has at best put American foreign relations at the mercy of russian note-takers and putin himself. At worst, he is doing this to protect inappropriate or even treasonous communications between himself and the russian president. And... he has done this at least 5 times (no telling what has happened in phone conversations between him and putin).

    trump claims he didn't demand the interpreter's notes. trump's lack of honesty and transparency is now forcing the interpreter into this situation. Its too late to close the barn door.
     
    #33 NewRoxFan, Jan 14, 2019
  14. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Member

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    In the end, it was Obama’s responsibility to stop the Russians.

    He failed.
     
    #34 Cohete Rojo, Jan 14, 2019
  15. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    So that gives Trump the go ahead to praise Putin, change the GOP platform re: Ukraine, publicly ask for Russia's assistance in hacking the DNC/Hillary, remove some sanctions and not enforce others, regurgitate Russian propaganda, and change/bury transcripts of meetings with Putin?
     
    #35 Jugdish, Jan 14, 2019
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Member

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    So let me understand this... it appears you no longer think that the russians were not trying to mess with the U.S. election and help trump win... but instead, you blame former President Obama for russia doing it?
     
    #36 NewRoxFan, Jan 14, 2019
  17. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    These conversations were likely intercepted and recorded from the mistake-in-chief's unsecured phone.
     
    #37 Rashmon, Jan 14, 2019
  18. bongman

    bongman Member

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    Yep. Basically, if I was caught cheating with another man's wife, its the husbands fault for allowing his wife to be unloyal.
     
    #38 bongman, Jan 14, 2019
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    And you wonder (or maybe you don't) why I call you a Trump puppet.
     
    #39 Major, Jan 14, 2019
  20. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Ah another false eqivalancy thread - whew, haven't seen a dumbass thread like that in a while.

    DD
     
    #40 DaDakota, Jan 14, 2019
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