Unless JVG is going to use Cato solely as a backup to Yao, I believe it makes the most sense to take advantage of his relatively strong market value and trade him. There are too many teams out there that need a strong, physical center like Cato. Meanwhile, we continue to play him out of position and expect him to guard quicker PF's with more versatile games, and quite frankly it isn't fair to expect him to do that. We should trade him for a true PF that isn't necessarily a scoring machine (we don't really need that, Taylor can carry the scoring load at PF) but we need somebody like P.J. Brown, Kurt Thomas, Marcus Camby or maybe even Brian Grant to name a few examples--someone who is a solid defender and team player. We really can't go on expecting Cato to be able to defend the likes of Dirk Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, etc--players with muliti dimensional games. Any thoughts or suggestions?
I remember when Cato was trying to guard Brad Miller in the 1st game against the Kings. Brad Miller ended up with some crazy numbers that game.
well JVG style is team defense which seems to cover up individual shortcoming on defense. So tonight team defense was down and Cato's weakness of D at the 4 was opposed. All in all, Cato does the intangibles---> take the charge, hustles, boards, blocks...Why trade him..because he had a bad game tonight? I'm tired of poster's like you that are fair weathered. You give praise for one good game and make a trade thread for one bad game. Why dont you just look at the trend for the whole season? You think if Cato really sucked that bad, then MoT would have already replaced him in the starting lineup. Besides, he only plays 25 minutes now a game.
well JVG style is team defense which seems to cover up individual shortcoming on defense. So tonight team defense was down and Cato's weakness of D at the 4 was opposed. All in all, Cato does the intangibles---> take the charge, hustles, boards, blocks...Why trade him..because he had a bad game tonight? Anytime we play a team with a versatile PF, Cato's weaknesses on defense are EXPOSED. Opposed?? I'm tired of poster's like you that are fair weathered. You give praise for one good game and make a trade thread for one bad game. Why dont you just look at the trend for the whole season? You think if Cato really sucked that bad, then MoT would have already replaced him in the starting lineup. Listen here buddy, i've posted here not even 10 times. I've hardly ever mentioned Cato's name to be honest. In a nutshell, you don't know what the hell you're talking about. Anyways, maybe if you would actually READ my post and what i'm suggesting, you wouldn't have been so quick to try and pick a fight by calling me "fair weathered." I think Cato is a good, physical and athletic CENTER. I have never been a fan of playing people out of position and I probably never will be. He's not quick or agile enough to defend good PF's. He has a center's body with a center's game hence the reasoning behind myself suggesting that JVG either uses him as a backup for Yao off of the bench (would could become invaluable if Yao got hurt--God forbid) or trade him for a real PF while Cato's market value is still relatively high. I'm NOT saying Cato is a bad player or that he has done a bad job at PF. He has done the best he can considering the circumstances. It's unreasonable to expect a player like Cato to defend quicker PF's in this league, and tonight you saw an example of why.
Kelvin Cato + Eric Piatkowski = Al Harrington + Scot Pollard ROCKETS F: Jim Jackson + Boki Nachbar F: Maurice Taylor + Al Harrington C: Yao Ming + Scot Pollard G: Steve Francis + Mark Jackson G: Cuttino Mobley + Adrian Griffin PACERS F: Ron Artest + Austin Croshere F: Jermaine O'Neal + Jonathan Bender C: Kelvin Cato + Jeff Foster G: Jamaal Tinsley + Kenny Anderson G: Reggie Miller + Eric Piatkowski
First off, dont' call me buddy. You dont know me. Second, I'll address your original question which I lacked to address last time. If the Rockets felt that Cato's lack of defense was such a shortcoming, I'm sure they would have tried to package him with Moochie to obtain Kurt Thomas. Obviously, we did not attain Thomas via trade for several reasons (1) NY didn't think Cato's value > KT's value (2) his huge salary makes him not very easily tradeable. Although, Cato may not have the quickness to cover fast pfs, I do not think this is such a liability to the team. As I said before, the Rox play team defense. I believe it is team defense which wins you ball games. True team defense is only as strong as the individuals who participate in the defensive plays. But a team does not have to have 5 JJs or 5 mobleys on it to be successful in team defense. If Cato's lack of agility was so much a liability to this team, I am sure that he would be replaced at the PF position and returned to the backup C position you want him to have. But that hasn't happened yet has it. Therefore, eventhough Cato has trade value, I do not think the positives of trading him for a true PF. Again, I don't think his shortcomings on defense are that much of a liability to our team. The intangibles and what he does on the court outweight his lack of defensive ability in my opinon. Third, please try to make an original thread. Your conclusion has been numerously posted on this bbs since the season has started. Fourth, I did mean exposed. Thank you for the correction. Fifth, should be capitalized next time. <I've>
Ummm....Exactly what team has the cap space for an underacheiving center that makes far more than his market value? And untill Yao stops fouling out or sitting on the bench half the game due to foul trouble, i think Cato plays a vital role on this team as a defensive presence. If we can't get a high scoring center, which there are none available, or even in existance anymore, people might as well get used to seeing Cato play 30 minutes a night.
Second, I'll address your original question which I lacked to address last time. If the Rockets felt that Cato's lack of defense was such a shortcoming, I'm sure they would have tried to package him with Moochie to obtain Kurt Thomas. Obviously, we did not attain Thomas via trade for several reasons (1) NY didn't think Cato's value > KT's value (2) his huge salary makes him not very easily tradeable. Hey buddy! Neither of us know what is going on inside the minds of Isiah Thomas or Carroll Dawson. Each team is going to stand pat until they can find the right deal hence the constant NY rumors and trade speculations. I can tell you this though. I have heard first hand, from a member of the Rockets' staff, that NY does indeed have major interest in Cato. Let's think about this: NY already has the highest payroll in the league. By adding a player with 2 years remaining on his contract that would be about the 5th or 6th worst salary on the team and fulfills your need for a big man, I don't think Isiah would be shy on pulling the deal....especially if it involved getting rid of Keith Van Horn. And just in case you're forgetting, the trade deadline is still some time away. All of these trade rumors and speculation are going to do nothing but continue to grow and get worse. So get used to it! Although, Cato may not have the quickness to cover fast pfs, I do not think this is such a liability to the team. As I said before, the Rox play team defense. I believe it is team defense which wins you ball games. True team defense is only as strong as the individuals who participate in the defensive plays. But a team does not have to have 5 JJs or 5 mobleys on it to be successful in team defense. If Cato's lack of agility was so much a liability to this team, I am sure that he would be replaced at the PF position and returned to the backup C position you want him to have. But that hasn't happened yet has it. Regardless of the fact that I am suggesting we trade Cato, between who we currently have a PF, Cato is obviously the best defender there. Mo Taylor and Scott Padgett can't guard a mailbox let alone a major Western Conference PF. In that sense, Cato is valuable, but only to a degree. Cato will be effective against teams with players like him playing the same position. Anyone who is quick or agile, Cato is going to get outplayed by simply by his lack of quickness and coordination. Like I said before, I am not a fan of playing players out of position and if you look at our current roster, we don't have a backup for Yao on paper. Obviously, Cato plays center minutes during the game but I will stand by my original statement and say either move him to backup center or trade him to someone who can use him better than we can. I really believe our lack of consistent production from the forward positions is going to hurt us in the long run and by trading Cato it would be an easy way to tweak this team, without trading any of our best players. I still think Cato is a good player and is valuable to us, but if the right deal came along to snag a decent PF with an all-around game, I would do it in a heartbeat. Third, please try to make an original thread. Wow, thanks for pointing this out. I'm not on here that much but I didn't realize Kelvin Cato was such a hot topic on here! Maybe I can start a "Trade Francis" thread?? Fourth, I did mean exposed. Thank you for the correction. Anytime buddy.... Fifth I stand corrected! Buddy
I too think we should trade him while the market is high.....we need someone that can actually catch a pass and make a shot. Cato ain't it. DD
Lamar Odom is a mismatch for us. Period. We can either put a smaller Jimmy J on him or a tall, slower Kelvin Cato on him. Either way, advantage Miami. He's just a tough match up. I actually thought Cato played pretty well last night, all things considered. He was aggressive around the basket, he drained his free throws, and hell he even hit about a 17 or 18 footer in the first half! I think you should look elsewhere for a reason we lost last night. It's not a "Trade Cato" morning.
I agree, Cato's trade value is at a all time high right now. Even though Cato plays pretty good D and can rebound, the guys lack of scoring ability is killing us, and the fact that faster PFs (Pau, Odom, Dirk, etc....) are basically unstoppable when they play us.
Give it a rest already.... As I have mentioned before, not every player on the floor needs to be a scorer...(i.e. Charles Oakley, Dennis Rodman, etc.) Sometime I think you people are a little too impatient and can't see the forest despite the trees... LOCK THIS POST PLEASE!!!!!!
Its not as much Cato's D that kills us, I acctuly that helps us at times, seeing that we do have the lowiest field goal % in the NBA! That said i think its more of his offense that really hurts us.. I say if we can get a nice young athletic PF like A. Harrington pull the trigger & bring him over if not let Cato play and start its not that big of a deal as long as we get the W i dont give a ****. shawn
Houston trades: C Kelvin Cato (6.2 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.0 apg in 27.9 minutes) SF Eric Piatkowski (5.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 17.9 minutes) Houston receives: PG Troy Bell (2.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 3.5 minutes) SG James Posey (11.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.3 minutes) PF Stromile Swift (9.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.8 minutes) Change in team outlook: +12.1 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +1.0 apg. Memphis trades: PG Troy Bell (2.5 ppg, 1.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 3.5 minutes) SG James Posey (11.4 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 1.5 apg in 28.3 minutes) PF Stromile Swift (9.5 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 0.5 apg in 19.8 minutes) Memphis receives: C Kelvin Cato (6.2 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.0 apg in 42 games) SF Eric Piatkowski (5.1 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.5 apg in 25 games) Change in team outlook: -12.1 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -1.0 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED new starting lineup PG Francis SG Cat SF Posey PF Swift C Yao
I don't normally engage in these trade threads, but in my ongoing quest to find a trade that helps both teams I root for, I have thought about these two: ( forgive the Real GM thing, quicker than typing) Houston trades: SG Cuttino Mobley (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.4 apg in 39.5 minutes) C Kelvin Cato (6.2 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.0 apg in 27.9 minutes) Houston receives: PG Alvin Williams (8.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 30.7 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (13.9 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 34.1 minutes) SF Lamond Murray (7.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.4 minutes) Change in team outlook: +8.7 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +2.4 apg. Toronto trades: PG Alvin Williams (8.6 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 4.1 apg in 30.7 minutes) PF Donyell Marshall (13.9 ppg, 8.7 rpg, 1.6 apg in 34.1 minutes) SF Lamond Murray (7.7 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 1.1 apg in 19.4 minutes) Toronto receives: SG Cuttino Mobley (15.3 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 3.4 apg in 43 games) C Kelvin Cato (6.2 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.0 apg in 42 games) Change in team outlook: -8.7 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and -2.4 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED To be honest, I don't know if Toronto does this: Obviously they lose across the board statistically, but they could use a big body down low, although Marshall is rebounding much better than Cato ( almost 11rpg since coming to the Raptors and starting). This is probably pro-Houston due to my excitement over how we've been playing. Marshall has been Toronto's best player of late, and Williams has been their leader and best defender. Another problem is it leaves them woefully weak at the point behind Rose. Maybe if we included a 1st...I don't know. On the trade, Marshall is much better than Cato, and would go well next to Yao, Mobley is putting up better numbers in more minutes than Williams, but Alvin has been playing great, just not shooting all that much. He's totally a JVG style player, and now that his ankle problems are over, he's back as a defender. I have often thought that he'd make a perfect backcourt mate for Francis. If Murray contributes, which his career says he can, great. If not, he's a salary to use later. Probably unlikely, as Toronto loves both players, but they do need a solid big body, can use Bosh as a full time 4, and Mobes and Carter are friends. Toronto could start Peterson, who's been playing well, and move Carter back to the 2, with Cuttino as a 6th man, or start Cat and Carter and keep MoPete coming off the bench.
