I've never understood the point of getting an MBA if you already hold an undergraduate business degree. I think learning something else would make you more marketable.
As someone going through the application process right now, this really concerns me. I've heard the same sentiment from others, too, so I think Manny's exactly right. I'm applying to 3 "top" schools (whatever that means) and 2 lower-tier schools (much lower). As I've been talking to more and more people the past few months, I'm seriously leaning against getting my MBA if I can't go to one of the top schools. Not because I'm an academic snob (I work in an industry where your experience counts much more than your education), but because I simply can't afford to pay for an MBA (and lose income for 2 years) if it's not going to give me a significant leg up. As a potential career switcher, I really need the MBA degree to help me find my first job after grad school. But if the MBA means I'm just going to have an extended job search after school or that I'll have to settle for a job that pays me pretty much the same as what I make now, then I don't think I can afford it. And I'm worried that I could be in that position unless I go to a "top" school. We'll see. I'm trying not to worry about it now that my apps are in. I'll worry about it as I see where I get in/get rejected from.
UT MBA graduates are having serious problems finding work right now. Most of the big consulting firms and energy companies that used to scoop tons of these guys up, can't even show up to career fairs any more. Companies like Accenture, KPMG, Deloitte, Duke, El Paso, etc. have all cut back or frozen all hiring. That combined with the IT bust/outsourcing frenzy has closed a lot of doors for MBAs. Some have decided to try to go back to their old jobs, while the few lucky ones have taken jobs with less heralded companies, and at a less than desirable salary. My brother is an I-banker at one of the big firms in NY says that not even his company can afford to bring in guys from Wharton, Harvard, etc. right now. I would seriously advise against leaving your current job to go get an MBA right now.
VesceySux, You got me there - I honestly have no clue. You're talking to a guy with no college degree. I also don't work with "bidnizz" people - I work in IT. I know when I interview people for IT positions, I couldn't care less if they graduated from Harvard, MIT, Caltech, or if they were self-taught with on-the-job training. If they can't answer the questions I ask them and make a good impression, they don't get hired - no matter what acronyms and abbreviations they have on their resumes. We've rejected MBA's, we've rejected Chemical Engineers with Computer Science degrees, etc. I think (in my industry anyway), the college degree is great for gaining (and even then, it's no great indicator you know what the hell you're talking about) - but after that, it's a clean slate.
BOO-YA! Die, IT scum! I keeeed. I keeeed. Granted, employers may reject potential hirees if they suck at their interview (and rightfully so), but, as I alluded to in my last post, before that process even begins, employers look at resumes and weed out the bad ones. So, I may be the best candidate for the job, but because I didn't get an MBA, and everyone else did, I won't even GET to the interview process, due to resume weeding. When you hire people, how do you screen resumes? What do you look for? How much time do you spend on one resume? (Oooooo! A chance for rare insight from the "inside.") For the rest of you scum: As I stated before, I'm interested in eventually starting my own business. (It's in my blood; both my parents have/had their own business.) Will an MBA really help me achieve this goal, or did I really learn everything I need to know in kindergarten? Any entrepreneurs out there?
It seems to me that you can get an MBA to get you in the door, but to have it close behind you maybe you you should focus on something innovative as a subset of the degree. Like Biotechnology. That way you have a focus and experience that others do not. If those Tech doors don't open for you then you can still fall back on your general MBA degree to earn some income. But it seems to me you need a focus to get ahead. Even if it means auditing a class where you watch students clone DNA or something. I am in agreement tho'. A graduate degee means you paid the money. Even the worst students can find a way to get a B. And that's ok. Because like people said. You don't end up doing what you went to school for anyway. A graduate degree enables you to find the information you are looking for. It's opens your eyes to information and how to access it. But you don't really learn anything in graduate school. Just my opinion.
I think it really all depends on what you want out of a degree. I am currently doing an Executive MBA through Tulane University in their Houston program. Their MBA was ranked 31st by Forbes and 26th for an Emba by Businessweek, but what sold be on the program was that I was recieving a quality education while I could continue with my current businesses. I run an Investment Management Firm, a Houston Healthcare Network and am currently Building some Townhomes in Downtown houston, so I am a VERY busy individual that has an extremely high opportunity cost. The classes are every other friday, saturday and sunday for two years (24 months). A full time MBA is only about 18 months b/c of summers/winter breaks and that it starts in Sept and ends in a May. I was accepted to schools that were ranked higher, though not a top 3 ( Harvard/Columbia/Wharton ) school. I was a bit weary of the EMBA setup but so far I have been quite satisfied. The professors are either Tulane professors (at the least) or better ones from Columbia, Northwestern and Univ of Chicago. There are many ex-profs who are in the industry now but still like to teach that are able to in our format which allows us to get some wonderful teachers. (Example being an ex-Kellogg prof who was hired by Mellon Capital to be their head of active investment strategies over a 60 Billion dollar portfolio came and taught us financial accounting.) I feel that I am going to learn quite a bit and then use that knowledge to better my own companies. If one day I have to work for someone, that that will help me get in the door and then the rest is up to me. I think the notion that a degree wil insure some long term high salary is ludicrous. A good MBA should teach you skills that will help you outperform others and excel in your situation. Companies hire an individual and are willing to pay because the individual has proven the theoretical ability to solve company problems and understand the inner workings of companies. Whether that is transferrable to a real life situation is going to differ from individual to individual. The job market is a bit tighter than normal, but these are skills and a degree that one will have for their lifetime. Hopefully the cost should pale in comparison to the knowledge gained.
From UT-D, and he's surprised? What, was the University of Phoenix's MBA program full? An MBA is not going to make or break you. Your native talents and your experience are far bigger factors. If you're an idiot, getting an MBA just makes you an idiot with an MBA. It doesn't magically grant you additional intelligence or creativity or emotional maturity.
A close friend of mine worked at Hughes Tool for 7 years. Seeing he was at a dead end, he went to UT on credit cards and loans. Graduated in 3 years. Applied to Stanford and Harvard (my wife helped write his applications) and got accepted to Harvard. (he wanted Stanford!) Went on credit cards and loans again. (he would charge everything and pay it off with the bi-annual student loans he got... then do it again) The guy graduated and immediately got a job in Manhattan for 6 figures. Quite an American success story. All I can figure is that he fit a niche that Harvard was looking for... white guy from working class background pulling himself up and working his a$$ off to get there. This was several years ago, but I mentioned it because of the topic. It really matters where you get your MBA.
I have helped my boss sort through potential people to hire the last few months. Here is what I have noticed. Due to the soft job market, there is a big influx of MBA's due to people going back to school because they could not find work. Also...sometimes an MBA might not help you get the job, but it sure isn't going to hurt. Every little bit extra helps in the job market. My group is about half IT, half Finance...so MBA's are more important on the Finance side of things...in the IT...experience is what is key. Here is the major point that my boss made to me, however. She doesn't care if you have a BBA or an MBA if your experience is solid...you'll get an interview...what does make a HUGE difference right now is if you are a CPA. CPA certification (especially in Finance) is a MAJOR selling point for people right now. In my opinion, the pre-req's and the testing for CPA certification is much harder than just going to get an MBA right now. Any business role in a corporation will be helped greatly with a CPA. That being said...we hired a guy with a Harvard MBA. He was good...had great work experience and all of that...we probably would have hired him anyways...but he was able to demand about 40% more salary than everybody else with the Harvard MBA...he could not have done that with any other MBA's (except Wharton, Columbia, ect.) The thing about a Harvard, Wharton, ect. MBA is that you already have to be good before they will take you. You are already the cream of the crop when they accept you, so whatever they teach you is just Gravy to an employer. Other MBA programs don't provide that much of a weed out process.
All this experience stuff is making me nervous, I really need to at least get an internship this summer... come on I'm sure one of you wants to give a vandy student.. econ major.. managerial leadership and organization minor an internship ..... ok maybe not
Yep, experience is key in the IT field. Definitely try to get an internship or part-time gig doing IT. I did that while going to UH and it definitely helped me out in getting a full-time IT job.
Sorry, I am dead serious...I think they are useless beyond the "paper chase" status symbol element. Even if they weren't uselss, they don't belong in universities. As far as my exposure, not direct (I fully admit to having a limited exposure, despite the advance degrees), but I know a man who runs an MBA program and have talked to him often, as well as having friends who have gotten MBA's, and my wife has taken some of the MBA coursework, to her dismay. I have an understanding, but I also have a strong bias, if that helps.
MBA speak has already corrupted your vocabulary . Do you remember the names of the Chicago professors? Thanks.
IT is different from other industries as far as the usefulness of having an MBA in middle management is concerned. MBA studies are supposed to prepare you for a variety of career paths, but I would think IT is one of the industries where an MBA really does not help much in middle management (on the contrary, as your post is another example of, many people in IT are very prejudiced against "business people" in general and MBAs in particular which makes it harder for this combination of people (MBA/Techies) to be successful together). In this case, I would say it is incorrect to generalize from IT to other industries, though. Maybe it makes you feel better to reject an MBA, but it does not prove or disprove anything about the value of an MBA. To clarify what I said before about an MBA not being too helpful in IT, assuming one believes that an MBA is helpful for any kind of general management, it can also be helpful in the IT industry, of course (more helpful the bigger the company). Just as long as the MBA guy stays as far as possible away from the programmers. Most MBA people cannot relate to the way IT people think, and vice versa. Edit: Just to add, I think you are absolutely right not to care about what degrees the IT people you hire have. It really is irrelevant to their required skills. The only thing it could be an indication of might be their determination and professionalism. Some of the most outstanding programmers I know were 18 or 19 when I met them and had learned a lot of what they knew on IRC etc.
I'm in my second year at the Jones School at Rice University. Jobs aren't as scarce as they were for last year's class, but recruiters aren't exactly thick on the ground. That said, I'm very glad I made the decision to get an MBA. For years I assumed that I'd go for a MPH, but in the end, this was the right decision for me. I was a Sociology major in college, and I wanted a stronger background in finance and accounting and Rice is fantastic in both those departments. One thing I really like about Rice is the fact that you aren't required to have a specific concentration (i.e. Accounting, Finance, Marketing, Entrepreneurship) but instead get to tailor your degree. So far this year I've taken fantastic classes on business-gov't relations, globalization, non-profit management, US health care policy, cost accounting, and strategic planning. I want to go into health-care, and am particularly interested in policy. The skills and knowledge I've picked up about finance (I concentrated more in corporate finance, not investments stuff) and accounting will really help me pursue the kinds of opportunities I'm looking for, and give me a much better balance in terms of being able to strategize. As PSJ said, it really helps to have a specific focus and to know why you are there and what you want to do, rather than looking at it as just a tool to up your asking price... And it does open doors in the future. I went to a very good college in Boston, and I think that with these degrees and with my background and concentrations I'll be able to find a job that I really love, doing work that I think is important. Of course, I do have a focus, and it's not a traditional MBA focus, though health-care is becoming more emphasized in many programs (and of course there are joint degree MD/MBA programs, MBA/MPH programs). My classmates who are more interested in IB are having a lot of trouble, but there are a lot of corporate finance and marketing jobs out there... It's a big investment in time and money though, so it is best to think it through thoroughly and realize that it's not the automatic $90K salary + $30K signing bonus it was 5 years ago...
