Walter E. Williams: AA civil rights leader speaks on biggest problem plaguing AA community

Awesome argument there, bud. Your debating skills are top notch!

 

Awesome! Keep em comin! You have NOTHING to say.

 

DING!

I knew it. Lol

 

There is nothing to debate I said all I had to say on the 1st page.

 

and that's why i said it needs to be them, blacks will be wary of whites providing the law enforcement, particularly in an increased environment, there's no way around that, but even without the history, it would still be difficult, because of human nature's tribal instincts.

As for the externalities, i used the word imposition, but i'll use externalities instead, the externailities of the law enforcement would be lower than the externalities of crime, there are no magic solutions, it's about trade offs, the least worst solutions, which is why the law enforcement needs to be careful that it doesn't become more problematic than what its trying to solve, as for example, when Bratton returned to NY as police commissioner some 20 years after first instituting its reforms, the first thing he talked about was communication with the people who felt over policed, and its been scaled right back.

As for doing it themselves, the question isn't "how do we change?", that's impossible even on a personal level, my wife being the only person i would be willing to do minor changes for, i'm not doing it for anyone else, we change for ourselves, not for others, especially ones we don't know, trying to expand it out to a group level, it moves from implausible to impossible, the question is "how can we help?", calling people out doesn't help either. Call someone who isnt a racist one, and eventually they begin to ignore you, call an actual racist one, and they don't care because they're happy with that.

 

Well I think we disagree about the costs of police abuse of power. But, I think I agree that the question is 'how can we help?' Criminals will not magically reform themselves because I say so. Cops will not magically reform themselves because I say so. But as a citizen in a democracy, I have some responsibility to maintain the accountability of our government, of which the police department is a part. I try not to go around calling cops racists because that's not helpful. But, if there are things we can change in how our government hires, trains, equips, socializes, incentivizes, commands, or organizes police officers that can improve on the fair and safe discharge of their duties, we should do that. So I'm not going to lay off of the police, not because I think they're bad (or worse than average) people but because they are accountable to us and should be monitored and regulated. On this issue, it's my way of helping. Though I don't think it is the most critical. I suspect the biggest linchpin is the public school system, a place where government (and citizens) have really failed hard. They have a hard job because it butts up against and even tries to compensate for the parenting in families. Where families fail, schools can't necessarily make it all back. But from the perspective of a citizenry using government as a tool to fix problems, it's not getting the job done. We either need to invest a lot more or try a different way of educating kids.

 

This is why Twain once said that there are lies, damned lies, and statistics. Because you are putting context behind numbers. You are saying that the numbers support your arguments when they are really just numbers. They simply exist and you can make these numbers to support any kind of narrative you want.

For example, most of the shooters are men. You can then say "We have a problem with men, maybe men aren't fit to be leaders since they are so violent, the stats show this..."

or you can flip it and say that you are only talking about 1% of a demographic group. These are just numbers. Correlation and causation are not the same thing... so....

You don't get to say this. You know why? You can't even describe WHY it is a cultural problem. If you can't describe to me WHY then that means you have no idea what you are actually talking about. You're just vaguely throwing crap at the wall here.

You keep saying this but this is whats been happening for years and years and years.

You are a fool if you think that most black parents tell their kids "Okay, I want you to get a gun then sell drugs! Then go to prison or end up dead because you joined a gang! I want all of this for you!"

Every human parent...or I should say most...are decent people that want the best for their kids, assuming that black parents are somehow encouraging their kids to do drugs and shoot at others is kind of...well..racist, especially if you have no proof to the claim. I only have anecdotal evidence, but every black adult I knew told me otherwise...even my career criminal uncle who has done nothing in life but go to prison over and over again. "You don't want to be like me..."

Also, you tried to blame rap before when I finally got you to talk about what you were talking about before and here's a perfect example of how you have no idea what you are talking about...

Since the very dawn of Hip Hop we've had songs like this...


to


In fact, if you listened to rap you'd understand the situation a lot more clearly. But that's the issue here, you don't listen. Instead, you sit there preaching at others as if they are all beneath you.

 

Always smells like a sanitized stormfront blowing in these senatorial threads. Anyone else get that vibe?

 

It's just that the use of stats/crime to excuse discrimination and injustice against any group is an age old trick for these types.

People hate when you bring up Nazi Germany in any argument but...really...the truth is this is what they did.

So it's not a surprise that white nationalists passed around fraudulent pictures like this...that Trump retweeted of course btw lol...


Because they know the impact of using 'stats' to fit into a narrative...

I'm not saying that talking about black crime stats make you racist automatically...but when you are CONSTANTLY pushing them over and over and over again through multiple threads...gets to be a bit suspect to me.

 

Yes, just numbers. You're again making an excuse for discrimination.

If someone is going to hire a black person they shouldn't let crime stats affect their decision. They should look at the individual before them. When the business or government decides to invest in a community why look at stats that reflect 1% of that group? You LOVE to reference Dr. King and you seem to have forgotten his message.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."

Oh?

This sort of implies that you think the opposite is happening, does it not?

If someone says that Harden needs to stop turning the ball over it implies that the opposite is happening...I think you are all over the place with this honestly, the rest of your post kind of proves this.

But this entire thread exists because you said that black celebrities and such WEREN'T saying these things? So, my posts and your posts seem to agree that they are...and what has changed? People have been saying this since the dawn of time, from as you say, MLK to various rappers through song, many many athletes...what has changed? People saying stuff hasn't worked and it's sure not going to work coming from conservatives.

You're like Dora the Explorer brought to life, expecting that if you say Swiper No Swiping enough that he'll just stop...swiping. I'm just telling you what you suggest won't work. Unless you can get these same leaders to sit down with every kid indivudally and work on them...then sure, maybe it would.

The truth is there are tons of organizations and leaders out there preaching this same stuff, the reason it doesn't reach everyone is because when you are a poor kid on the street and someone offers you to do something for a quick $300 you do it...when you see the local drug dealer get the ladies, the cars, etc etc...as Kanye said "As a shorty I looked up to the dopeman, only adult man, I knew that wasn't broke man.'

This is why young men in these situations turn to crime, the allure of it is pretty strong for a hormonal young man. I'm not giving anyone excuses, but if someone tells you to do this or that and you'll get a lot money right at this moment, a lot of young men take the bait. These young men also completely tune out the very same people you think could reach them. Their message goes in one ear and out of another. I know this personally because I knew and grew up with kids like that. They mocked any authority figure.

Well, I don't disagree there. The thing is, all this can be done without waving crime stats in front of every black person and telling them they are responsible and guilty for it somehow. Especially when such crime stats aren't prevalent in every black community...

You can preach on about strong homes and role models without blaring out crime stats every chance you get.

I think the solution is making sure that the justice system is as fair as possible to all people and improve the public school system. A lot of schools in problem areas meet the bare minimum of requirements. If you want to nurture a mind you have to put some effort into it. If you agree that these communities are in a cycle then sitting back and watching it does nothing but let the cycle continue.

 

I applaud your patience.

 

If your best friend is a black woman with a bi-racial family then surely she can tell you stories about the discrimination she's dealt with and because she's your best friend I'm sure you support her ability to enjoy the same freedom that you probably take for granted. I'm discussing issues important to me like redlining, like disenfranchisement, like police brutality. Instead of trying to attack me personally, let's talk about issues. Go.