[FEDERALIST] Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Could Be The Left’s Donald Trump

She isn't hiding a thing. She talks about issues all the time.

 

She talks about the free stuff she wants to give out as part of switching from capitalism to socialism, but she is hazy on the details about that transition. Again, it's a sales job....one that every socialist puts on to dupe stupid people into the most destructive economic system ever devised.

 

I really don't think you are correct on this matter. I think it is obvious that she wants to raise taxes on the upper income folks to pay for these programs. Just because she is not mentioning the actual percentage rate does not mean that she is hazy on the details.

This is not very complicated. Most of the programs that she is proposing could easily be paid for if we would just return to the tax rates of say before 1980 and the Reagan tax cuts for the rich which have continued to the present. Of course we might have to skip a war or two including the type of Iraq war that you were so supportive of.

 

Bobby, you claim that socialism is destructive economic system. However, you fail to show or detail perhaps to "dupe stupid people" as to exactly how the Scandinavian countries of Norway Sweden and Denmark are destructive and have poor economic outcome. You and your fellow conservatives are going to have to start to realize that you actually going to have to come up with some arguments as younger Americans in particular are wanting to have what the more advanced countries in Europe have that is: Medicare for all four-week paid vacations, higher minimum wages parental sick leave and the other benefits that are paid by tax systems in which the vast majority of the population pays little if any taxes more than present-day Americans.

 

Bobbie, I am not sure if you are into facts,but just in case:
https://www.peoplespolicyproject.or...cialist-institutions-and-socialist-countries/
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As an aside, Brad Delong tells me his definition is that the socialist institutions have to be accountable for 75 percent of GDP or more and so Norway falls short at 60 percent of GDP.)
If you define countries along a spectrum, then you can describe countries as being more or less socialist based on the size of their socialist institutions. My position has always been that (1) using this spectrum approach, Norway is clearly the most socialist country in the developed world, and (2) Norway and Nordic institutions generally provide a blueprint that can be copied and dialed up further. So for instance, you could have an even bigger state-owned enterprise portfolio, even bigger social wealth funds, and an even bigger general government sector. The institutions are proven and there is no obvious reason why their share of the economy cannot be even bigger than they are there

 

This was all hyperbole and stuff that has no basis in reality.

If you have problems with how socialism works in places all over the world then talk about those. But to say that it is simply the most destructive economic system ever devised is like saying nothing at all unless you illustrate what makes that true.

 

There literally has never been a place where socialism has worked.....so there's no successful examples of socialism to discuss. Now that doesn't stop socialists from thinking that it'll somehow work the next time it's tried, but that's delusional.

 

Those aren't socialist countries, they are capitalist countries that merely have ridiculously high taxes and a lot of social programs....I mean, they'd tell you so themselves if you asked them. Essentially capitalism pays for those programs, without capitalism those countries would become Venezuela pretty quickly.

 

Well, yeah. The U.S. has made damn well sure socialism doesn't "work" anywhere in the world.

 

Ah yes, it was only a matter of time till the "Socialism would would if not for the US making it fail" argument popped up. There's just nothing but excuses for socialism literally always failing so that people can keep the dream alive of the workers paradise that they are just sure will happen "when it's done right".

 

Not your definition of socialism perhaps, but the Definition that Ocasio-Cortez, and many other Democratic Socialists use, there absolutely are examples of where it has worked and is working today.

 

LOL, definitions of words are not subjective. There's the definition of the word and then there's those using it inaccurately. Now if she didn't show that she was against capitalism then I might buy into the idea that she's simply a moron like Bernie Sanders who doesn't understand the meaning of the words she's using, but her comments about the US perhaps needing to "evolve" beyond capitalism shows that she indeed is talking about actual socialism when she talks about it and is not merely being too dumb to know the difference between Democratic Socialism and being a Social Democrat like Bernie.

It's funny though that the history of socialism is so pathetic that modern day socialists have to point to capitalist economies as examples of success.

 

umm... Yes they absolutely are.

 

It's hopeless for him. He takes her statement of US evolving past capitalism as her wanting to end private businesses instead of just accepting that she's trying to fix problems that exist within this country.

In fact, she was on TYT recently, the host Cenk, a noted progressive, said that no one on the panel (With her there at the time) wanted to end private business.

At the end of the day, people like him can't argue against single payer, they can't argue against cheaper education, so all they have left is to ramble and rant about the fears of 'socialism' as you can see, he didn't even counter your point. He knows that ultimately these things, Healthcare and Education, are ruined if you let capitalism have its say about it, the examples are far and wide, so he doesn't even argue your point because there is little to argue here.

What Ocasio and Bernie wants works and has been shown to work and the American people when polled on it, want it. The best people like him can do is lie about their positions and fool them into believing that trickle-down economics and a complete free market can somehow solve every problem when we know it does the exact opposite when it comes to basic rights like Healthcare and Education.

 

You've been linked multiple times in this thread to different meanings and ideas people have for socialism. You have chosen one narrow definition and refuse to allow others. Then you try and paint everyone who uses the word with your idea of what socialism means.

Of course, if you'd actually address the issues she talks about rather than the labels it wouldn't matter. But instead, you just want to focus on the label.

 

Bobby, I refer you again to my above post so that you will be more knowledgeable (again if facts mater) as to what many folks think "socialism" is-- and why Norway for instance is very close to socialist by a relatively objective standard i,e,, the percentage of the GDP produced by enterprises socially owned. Of course you may choose to remain with a Fox News level definition of socialism, either out of ignorance for rhetorical purposes.

Who knows? once you and certainly many TRump supporters may become less adverse to democratic socialism benefits as they become more aware and less ideologically blind.

 

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they are wrong. I could tell you that the word "oxygen" really meant poison....that wouldn't make it so. That's pretty much what you are trying to do here and I'm simply not going to let you get away with it. Socialism is not a capitalist system...so if you are trying to say that "your definition" of socialism is a capitalist system then you are simply wrong. You'll just have to understand it if people won't let you re-define terms to mean the opposite of what they actually mean simply so that they'll be less embarrassing.

 

It sure seems weird that more people immigrate to the United States every year than any other country, considering how awful and racist it is.

 

You mean the people that Trump and the GOP want to stop from immigrating?

 

No, it actually shows that you are wrong. You just are lashing out rather than accepting it.