[FEDERALIST] Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Could Be The Left’s Donald Trump

Says the guy that's saying FDR was a fascist lol and Hitler was left...

You probably think fascism is left-wing politics too...

Also the guy who brought up the political compass and didn't even realize he referenced a specific chart in which the creator disagrees with everything he's said in this thread.

You've studies politics at length and came up with FDR being a fascist? Really? I think you need to study a bit harder.

 

Again, educate yourself.

Also, I never said FDR literally was a fascist, I mean, when you can't even get things like that correct, what hope do you have of following along in a conversation that is clearly over your heard?

As to Hitler being left of American politics....I mean that's just a fact and you just keep failing to follow along in conversation or you'd get that.

Here's your ****ing global political compass kid, check it yourself.



Essentially all of US politics is right of Hitler (and obviously less authoritarian), You're the one that thinks this **** is worth discussing, at least know what the damn thing says. Personally I find the global political compass to be a waste of time, and one centered on American politics is more useful....but then again, you are the crazy ass socialist that wants to feel more like a centrist (like Hitler) than a wacky left wing lunatic.

 

Mindboggling, you're now taking my position that America is right of center...that statement that started this whole thing lol...

Nope, you strongly implied it by comparing him to Mussolini, you know, the man most associated with Fascism...other than Hitler that is...I mean he's literally the picture of it if you pull it up on wikipedia...don't be dishonest, just embrace the statement or actually make the statement. You said FDR was VERY similar to Mussolini, the fascist. When I challenged you on this you merely went "STUDY YOUR HISTORY!" instead of just clarifying that it wasn't what you meant. Just admit that FDR wasn't a fascist and it's a silly opinion to even imply.

LOL so wait, this is where you contradict yourself...

All this thread you've been saying the American politics are left...

Yet above, you actually say the opposite, not only that, you say that the chart above is "Just a fact"

A chart, mind you, I said I didn't agree with...but here you have shown the chart and cited it as facts...

So your charge of me thinking that chart, in particular, is a 'fact' doesn't apply to me. Apparently, you think the chart is fact though, you've said so above. I've said, in my convo with bandwagoner, that I don't think Obama was that far right. I've said NUMEROUS times to you that I think Obama was right of center, that he was a moderate. I've already stated that I didn't agree with HIS political chart but that I could understand the conclusions he came to because he clearly described them...in a lot of detail no less...

Also, you said that the chart had MOST of the American politicians right of Hitler, it had two...they don't chart many politicians, but they did chart Bernie left of the center.

You need to keep up with the conversation here buddy, you've lost the plot completely, you are now agreeing with me that American politics are right of center, which I've said all along, it's rather easy to argue you into supporting my positions. You are even arguing on the basis that there is a universal center to be argued upon, which was also my point, and the author of the compass' point as well...

If you don't think it is worth discussing then stop discussing it? I know what it says, you didn't even know what it was, remember, you said "The Political Compass is based on circumstance." It's creator, who has the term trademarked mind you, says the exact opposite. I'm the one that understood completely what it was. You are the one that bought up the Political Compass, I was talking about a basic left-right political spectrum because I realize there are other political charts. I'm sure you want to disregard it now though because it doesn't support anything you've been saying.

I've never called my self center anything, I let you conservatives do that. You guys have a fetish for trying to appear moderate when you don't support a single left-wing policy. You, in particular, can't even bring yourself to admit that FDR was a good president because you'd have to admit that his policies helped America and he has been probably the most left-wing president America has had. You blame nearly every evil or bad done in the world on left-wing policies, you do your best to twist it that way. You can't even name one left-wing policy you'd support. I could do the opposite, but I call my self a left of center, probably where Bernie is at, I don't want or have to brag about being center anything. I certainly give 0 flips about you calling me a socialist since you've shown barely know what it means. At this point, that's a badge of honor sir, so thank you.

 

And, you double down on insult. Keep it up, I love watching you flail.

Unless the experience of the person in question has directly to do with the word in question. In this case, I believe that the person who has been in politics for decades has a better understanding of the word "socialism" than the random basketball BBS poster who has clearly shown the inability to understand the actual definitions of words having to do with politics.

Observing that you haven't provided any evidence of your claims is factual, not lazy.

Try again, rook.

 

SMH, this is just more of you failing to follow along in conversation. What I said was that American politics have moved to the left over the last decade or so, not that they are left on the global political compass.....you essentially have to be a socialist to be left on the global political compass.

You are conflating 2 discussions and it's frustrating.

What I find of value in a conversation about American politics is a political compass centered around American politics, not a global political compass that has essentially the whole of American politics in the top right quadrant.

 

Yeah...
So now that we've established that there is a center globally and that Obama is right of that center, (Which was my ENTIRE Point...) this puts your previous statement below into question...

So if Obama is center right...but the country or "Things" has moved so far left that he'd be considered a Nazi...that means you put the American center (incorrectly as you now realize) on the left. I've followed this conversation along perfectly fine, it's just your positions seem to change at will with whatever you're arguing. I mean, that's no different from when you were calling Trump supporters racist then attacked posters here (Saying they had Trump Derangement Syndrom) after he was elected for calling....Trump supporters racist...

Plenty of social democrats or social democratic parties that's been charted on his chart is left of that center too. Are we calling them socialists too now?

Well, my work here is done regardless. You admitted that American politics is right of the global center, which was my entire point. Not sure why it took so much for you to confirm something that everyone outside of America knows. Sometimes you have to step outside of yourself to learn more about yourself.

I've stated why I find it important (Seems political scholars agree too) because otherwise, you will not know when the country moves too far one direction. I'm sure if the country had moved left of center you'd argue its importance as well because you would not agree with "Free Healthcare" as a right-wing position and you, as someone right of the center, would feel maybe insulted that people were calling it a right-wing position.

Putting things into perspective by broadening your perspective is never a bad thing, only things to learn when doing that. Your planet example shows that, so does your map example. Otherwise, you'd think the sun orbits the Earth or that the Atlantic ocean represents the end of the world or something.

 

This just shows that you never followed along in the conversation to begin with. You were lost from the jump. I never disagreed that American politics would be on the right when looking at the entire global political compass....my argument was that the entire global political compass is irrelevant to American politics....I made that case time and time again only for you to fail to comprehend the conversation. When I say that "things have moved to the left" I was clearly talking about the center of American politics.....and it has. The fact that absolute radicals like Ocasio-Cortez aren't just laughed off the stage shows that.

Your "entire point" was an attempt to make radical positions seem more centrist and that was why you kept bringing up the global political compass. Much like Hitler, Ocasio-Cortez's views are not that far away from center (unlike just about all of American politics which is considerably further to the right than either) of the global political compass. You seek to normalize the radical....and it's just not going to work any more than telling that burger flipper that he's making a great wage based on his position on the global wage chart. I know, I know, you can't follow that line of logic. Don't worry, I wasn't expecting you to be able to.

 

No, I understood from the jump, you didn't even know what the Political Compass was, even though you brought it up...

Again, you've talked circles around your own point so many times. You've said that the center was incorrect on that particular political compass and just then said it was FACT. So I'm not sure you have any idea what you're talking about here.

Yes, it's very hard to comprehend positions that change. One moment you're calling the chart a joke and the next you are telling me that it is 'just the facts'

Again, it's very confusing when you flip positions radically in the span of one thread.

Yes, Free Healthcare and livable wages are such radical positions. Keep living in your fantasy world where these are radical positions.

LOL

Are you equating the center to Nazism? I see you still don't understand how this compass works. Hitler was an authoritarian right winger, full stop. Period. End of story. It's fine that you don't want to admit this, it's like someone not wanting to admit that Stalin was a socialist, but it's whatever. it's a bad look though, it makes you look like you don't know anything about the political spectrum and fascism. You need to study history a lot more.

I seek to normalize positions that are polling pretty high and you see the entirety of liberals as radicals, so again, your opinion that I'm radical does nothing to me, I don't know why you keep bringing it up, I honestly don't care.

As for me not following your line of logic, no, I don't. It's hard to follow the logic of someone that said the chart I showed earlier was laughable and a joke and then now claims it as 'Just the facts' very hard following this line of logic.

 

lol Bobbie with Ocasio Cortez derangement syndrome. Again, Bobbie, $15/hr, Medicare for All and free college education. free child care for you and your kinfolk will help with y'all's resentment and feeling that someone is taking advantage of y'all.

 

I truly hope you are merely being intellectually dishonest and are trolling me and that you aren't actually as stupid as you are coming across. What I was pointing out to you is that if you are looking at the global political compass, Hitler would be a centrist when it comes to his spot on the chart left to right.....far left of where American politics has always been....but not left of radicals like your girl Ocasio-Cortez.

I'm not sure why simple concepts like this consistently go over your head, but I'm hoping it's just you trolling and not indicative of some kind of intellectual deficiency on your part.

No, you are mistaken, when we are talking about socialists like Ocasio-Cortez, we're not talking about "liberals", because socialists do not believe in liberal values such as individual liberty and private property ownership. Socialists see liberals as right wingers because to them, those that believe in liberal values are pretty far to the right.

 

So when did she ever even remotely hint, imply, or explicitly state at not believing in private property ownership?

 

They are laying the groundwork to smear someone who might be a political threat so they never get a chance

 

Bobby can only focus on the label and use the meaning that it makes it sound the craziest rather than actually addressing issues.

That is exactly what she mentioned would happen. She will continue to address the issues and that's what we should all focus on as well. She is not in any way shape or form advocating eliminating private ownership of property.

The way bobby has been arguing this whole time is to argue against what he believes a socialist is and addressing the issues of his version of communist (socialist) as opposed to the issues about which Ocasio-Cortez is actually talking.

 

More talk about the labels and zero addressing of the issues she is addressing.

 

I'm not focusing on the label, I'm focusing on her ideology. Socialism isn't bad because of the name, it's bad because it's awful ideology. Also, it's funny, I argue against what socialism is and you guys keep acting as if it's some different thing....it's not. Just because some people inaccurately use the term, it doesn't change what the actual word means. Advocating for socialism IS advocating for the elimination of private property....they just don't lead with that, they tell you it is about "justice" or "fairness" or whatever BS it takes to get suckers on board. Do you think Chavez sold Venezuela on Democratic Socialism with an accurate portrayal of what would happen? Of course not, they never do.....and yet there never ceases to be suckers buying their BS.

 

Chavez explictly desired the government to own theeans of production for ****ing OIL. no, Alexandria Cortez has not even remotely desired the government to take over the means of production for our free markets besdies healthcare which dozens of modern nations have already done and last time I checked they haven't turned into a communist dystopia .

 

Her position on the issues is what actually matters. You aren't focusing on that.

Instead you say socialism has to mean x, y, and z and those things are horrible. She has never supported x, y, and z and has a list of issues she is on record supporting. Yet you keep arguing against x, y, and z.

 

¡Ocasio! Totally whiffed last night.

Meanwhile, Trump was 5 for 5!

 

Yes I really am though. I'm just not focusing on the way she's trying to hide her position on the issues. I'm focusing on her actual positions rather than the way she's trying to spin them to make them more palatable. She is an admitted socialist this it's entirely fair to criticize her chosen ideology. Basically you want me to ignore her actual beliefs and focus on the spin and I'm just not going to do that.